Episode Description:
College athletic recruiting can feel like its own completely separate college admissions process.
The timelines are different. The communication rules are different. Families hear terms like ID camp, showcase, preferred walk-on, recruiting calendar, athletic scholarship, and NIL, sometimes without anyone explaining what they actually mean.
And then there is the question almost every student-athlete eventually asks:
Am I already too late?
In Episode 20 of Drop In: The College Admissions Podcast, Lisa and Josh are joined by Brian Plotkin, Head Men’s Soccer Coach at Army West Point, to talk about what college recruiting actually looks like from the coach’s side.
When should an athlete reach out? What makes a coach open an email? Should students wait to be discovered? Are camps and showcases worth the money? Can athletic recruiting improve a student’s chances of admission? And what does a coach really mean when they say, “We’re interested”?
If your family is just beginning this process, start with our companion guide, College Admissions for Student Athletes: A Guide to Recruiting, Eligibility, and Fit. It walks through eligibility, communication, college fit, recruiting profiles, showcases, applications, and the bigger picture families need before diving into individual recruiting conversations.
First: there is no single recruiting start date
One of Brian’s biggest reminders is that recruiting does not begin on the exact same day for every athlete.
Different sports have different timelines. Different divisions have different rules. And athletes develop at different rates.
Younger students can begin by learning.
Visit campuses. Watch college teams play. Attend a camp if there is genuine interest. Explore different kinds of schools. Start understanding what level of athletics and what kind of college environment might actually fit.
As students move through sophomore and junior year, the process can become more intentional.
That is when conversations with high school or club coaches, academic planning, recruiting research, camps, showcases, and communication with college programs may become more important.
Because NCAA recruiting rules can vary by sport, division, and grade level, families should always check the current rules rather than relying on what happened with an older sibling or teammate. The NCAA’s official recruiting resources and recruiting calendars are the best place to verify current communication periods and requirements. NCAA.org
Grades open doors
Yes, athletic ability matters.
But Brian makes this point very clearly:
Grades can open doors or close them.
Coaches may be evaluating athletic talent, but depending on the college, they may also be looking at GPA, SAT or ACT scores, course rigor, leadership, extracurricular involvement, and what the student brings beyond the sport.
Being a great athlete does not automatically erase academic expectations.
That is why recruiting should never happen completely separately from the student's academic college planning.
At academically selective institutions, those academic and personal pieces can become the difference between a coach being interested in an athlete and actually being able to move that student through the admissions process.
Should student-athletes wait to be discovered?
No.
Brian encourages students to be proactive, consistent, and persistent.
College coaches receive a lot of email. A student may send a message at exactly the wrong moment: during travel, before a game, in the middle of a busy recruiting week, or when a coach simply has too much happening.
A lack of response does not automatically mean a lack of interest.
A thoughtful follow-up can put the student back on the coach’s radar.
And if a student is genuinely interested in a program, there is nothing wrong with showing that interest consistently.
What should go in an email to a college coach?
Your introductory email does not need to be your autobiography.
Brian recommends giving coaches the information they need quickly:
Name
Graduation year
High school
Club or team
GPA
SAT or ACT score, when available
Position or event
Highlight video
Upcoming competition schedule
Why you are genuinely interested in that particular college or program
Then let the film and future conversations do some of the talking.
One other detail?
Proofread the college name.
Sending Army West Point an email explaining how excited you are about Rutgers is memorable, but probably not in the way you hoped.
Camps and showcases can matter, but families should be strategic
Are college camps just money makers?
Are showcases actually useful?
Brian’s answer is basically our favorite answer at Decision Drop:
It depends.
Showcases can give coaches an opportunity to evaluate athletes in competition. Camps can give coaches something different: a chance to spend more time around the athlete.
At a camp, coaches are not only watching athletic ability.
They may also notice how a student enters the environment, interacts with teammates, responds to coaching, treats weaker players, handles mistakes, and carries themselves when they do not realize anyone is paying attention.
That character piece matters.
So before paying for another camp or showcase, families should ask whether the schools attending actually make sense for the student, whether the athlete has communicated with those coaches, and what the family realistically hopes to gain from the event.
Does athletic recruiting help with college admission?
It can.
Brian has coached at institutions including Dartmouth, Notre Dame, and Army West Point, and explains that athletic ability can create opportunities that may not exist in exactly the same way for another applicant.
But recruited athletes still have thresholds to meet.
Grades matter.
Course rigor matters.
Testing may matter.
Leadership can matter.
Activities beyond the sport can matter.
A student who is “a really good soccer player” may still need an and.
A great athlete and a strong student.
An athlete and a leader.
An athlete and someone with intellectual or extracurricular interests outside the sport.
The athlete is still applying to a college, not just joining a team.
Division I is not automatically the best college experience
This is one of the most important conversations in the episode.
Students often start recruiting with the assumption that the highest athletic division is automatically the best outcome.
It is not.
Division I may provide the right environment for some students.
But a Division III athlete may have greater flexibility for study abroad, internships, research, summers away from campus, and other parts of college life that matter deeply.
Instead of asking only:
“What is the highest level where I can play?”
Students should also ask:
“What kind of college experience do I actually want?”
That question matters because eventually every athlete stops playing.
Choose a college you would still want to attend if the sport disappeared tomorrow.
Walk-ons, preferred walk-ons, and scholarship conversations
Recruiting vocabulary can get fuzzy very quickly.
If a coach mentions a walk-on opportunity, preferred walk-on status, scholarship money, or another roster arrangement, Brian’s advice is simple:
Ask questions.
If you do not completely understand what the coach is offering, ask again.
What does “preferred walk-on” mean in this program?
Is there a guaranteed roster spot?
What happens after admission?
How much athletic scholarship money is actually being offered?
Can athletic aid be combined with academic merit aid or other scholarships?
What would the family actually pay each year?
Do not allow the size of an athletic scholarship to become the trophy at the end of the process.
The school offering the largest athletic scholarship can still be the most expensive option.
Compare the actual four-year bottom line.
What about NIL?
Name, image, and likeness opportunities now exist throughout college athletics, but Brian cautions families against assuming every college athlete is receiving huge amounts of money.
The opportunities differ dramatically by sport, institution, athlete, and market.
For many non-revenue sports, NIL opportunities may exist for only a small percentage of athletes and may involve relatively modest amounts.
It is part of the modern recruiting landscape, but for most high school athletes it should not become the thing driving the entire college decision.
Parents, Brian has a recruiting red flag for you
This one might sting a little.
Brian’s biggest recruiting red flag?
Parents doing the communicating for the student.
Coaches are trying to build relationships with the athletes they may coach for four years.
They want to hear from the student.
Students should send the emails. Students should ask the questions. Students should follow up. Students should have conversations with coaches.
Parents absolutely have a role. They can help with organization, travel, finances, questions, perspective, and proofreading.
But the relationship between athlete and coach needs to belong to the athlete.
And that ownership is good practice for college itself.
What if recruiting does not end with an offer?
Then those years were still worth something.
Brian reminds students that sports build toughness, discipline, resilience, relationships, and the ability to work through disappointment.
Eventually, almost every athlete is told that their competitive career is over.
For some that happens at 17.
For someone else it might happen after a professional career.
But a coach saying no does not erase everything a student gained from years of playing.
The friendships mattered.
The work mattered.
The discipline mattered.
The person you became mattered.
The biggest takeaway
You are more than your position. More than your stats. More than your ranking. More than your highlight reel.
Recruiting can make students feel as though they are constantly being measured, but coaches are not only bringing an athlete into a program.
They are bringing a person into a locker room for four years.
Be coachable. Be someone who works. Be a teammate other people want around. Be curious about the college itself. And do not wait around hoping to be magically discovered.
Research schools that fit. Send the email. Make the video easy to watch. Keep your grades strong. Follow up. Ask questions. And give yourself a genuine opportunity to be seen.
If you want help building the right college list, evaluating recruiting opportunities, balancing athletics with admissions, or figuring out what an offer actually means, connect with Lisa and Josh at Decision Drop.
In this episode:
When college athletic recruiting really starts
How recruiting timelines vary by sport
When student-athletes should contact coaches
Whether students should wait to be discovered
What college coaches want in a recruiting email
How often athletes should follow up
Camps vs. showcases
What coaches evaluate beyond athletic ability
Whether recruiting helps with college admission
Why grades and course rigor matter
Division I vs. Division III
Walk-ons vs. preferred walk-ons
Athletic scholarships and college costs
NIL and high school recruiting expectations
What belongs in a highlight video
Why parents should let athletes communicate with coaches
What happens if a student does not get recruited
Why athletes should choose the college, not just the team
🎙️ Also available on: Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | iHeart
Top Questions Answered in this Episode
When should a student-athlete start the college recruiting process?
There is no single start date for every student-athlete. Recruiting timelines vary by sport, division, and the athlete's development. Younger students can begin by visiting campuses, watching college teams, attending appropriate camps, and learning what types of colleges and athletic programs interest them. As students move through sophomore and junior year, communication with coaches, showcases, recruiting research, academics, and eligibility planning often become more intentional. Families should always verify current sport-specific recruiting rules with the NCAA.
Should student-athletes contact college coaches first?
Yes. Student-athletes should not assume that a coach will eventually discover them. Coaches receive a large volume of email, and proactive, consistent communication can help a student stay on a program's radar. If a coach does not respond to an initial email, a thoughtful follow-up is appropriate. A lack of response does not always mean a lack of interest.
What should a student-athlete include in an email to a college coach?
A recruiting email should be concise and easy for a coach to scan. Students should generally include their name, graduation year, high school, club or team, GPA, SAT or ACT scores if available, position or event, highlight video, upcoming competition schedule, and a specific reason they are interested in that college or program. Students should proofread carefully and make sure the college and coach names are correct.
Are college recruiting camps and showcases worth the money?
They can be, but families should choose them strategically. Showcases can help coaches evaluate athletes in competition, while camps may give coaches more time to evaluate athletic ability, coachability, personality, character, and interactions with other players. Before paying for an event, families should consider which coaches will attend, whether those colleges are realistic academic and athletic fits, and whether the student has already communicated with those programs.
Does being recruited for a sport help with college admission?
It can, depending on the college, sport, and recruiting situation. Athletic ability may provide additional support in the admissions process, but recruited athletes may still need to meet academic expectations involving grades, course rigor, testing, leadership, and other interests. A coach's interest is not the same thing as an admission offer, and students should understand both the athletic and academic expectations of each institution.
Is Division I always better than Division III for student-athletes?
No. The best division depends on the experience the student wants. Division I programs may involve greater year-round athletic commitments, while Division III can sometimes provide more flexibility for internships, research, study abroad, and other academic or extracurricular experiences. Students should evaluate the entire college experience instead of assuming that the highest athletic division is automatically the best fit.
What is the difference between a walk-on and a preferred walk-on?
The meaning can vary by program, so students should ask coaches for a clear explanation. A preferred walk-on may be a student the coaching staff already knows and expects could join the roster if admitted, while another walk-on may need to earn an opportunity after arriving on campus. Because terminology and roster expectations differ, families should ask whether a roster position is guaranteed, what admissions support exists, and exactly what the coach is offering.
How involved should parents be in college athletic recruiting?
Parents can help students stay organized, evaluate finances, plan travel, proofread communication, and think through important decisions, but communication with college coaches should generally be student-led. Coaches want to build relationships with the athletes they may eventually coach. Students should write emails, ask questions, follow up, and begin taking ownership of their recruiting process.
Chapters
00:00 – College Athletic Recruiting: What Families Need to Know
03:56 – How Recruiting Has Changed & When to Start
08:18 – Should Student-Athletes Contact Coaches First?
10:09 – How to Write an Email a College Coach Will Actually Read
11:57 – Camps, Showcases & Where Families Should Spend Their Money
14:52 – Does Athletic Recruiting Help With College Admission?
17:58 – Division I vs. Division III: Which Experience Is Better?
20:15 – Walk-Ons, Preferred Walk-Ons & What They Actually Mean
21:18 – Athletic Scholarships: What Families Need to Ask
24:11 – NIL & College Recruiting
25:38 – The Biggest Recruiting Red Flag: Parents
27:18 – What to Do BEFORE Contacting a College Coach
28:37 – What If You Don’t Get Recruited?
30:08 – Lightning Round: Highlight Videos, Grades & Getting Seen
32:13 – Hot Take: Pick the College, Not Just the Team
35:53 – Drop the Mic: You Are More Than Your Stats & Highlight Reel
39:51 – Next Week: What Happens AFTER You Submit Your Application?
Read the full Episode 20 transcript
Josh (00:21)
Every week we drop the noise.
Lisa (00:22)
Drop the stress.
Josh (00:23)
And drop some knowledge.
Lisa (00:24)
Welcome to the Drop In, the College Admissions podcast by Decision Drop. If you want to learn more about our services or have Josh and I guide your family through this process personally, head over to decisiondrop.com and check us out. And do not forget to like and subscribe.
Josh (00:40)
I'm Josh.
Lisa (00:41)
I'm Lisa. Let's go. Ooh, that was better, right? I didn't as like, ooh.
Josh (00:46)
It was the nice mix between, hmm, is she gonna come through the camera versus some restraint there? So that was very good, Lisa. You're getting better.
Lisa (00:54)
Aren't you being nice? I think you're being too nice, Josh, but I'll take it. I think you're being too kind to me, but thank you, I'll take it.
Josh (01:02)
Excellent. Well, so Lisa, today we're gonna be talking to the athletes. We're gonna be talking to the kids who have spent every weekend at a tournament, every summer at a camp, and every car ride with a ball, a stick, a racket of some sort, or an entire gym bag in the back of the car.
Lisa (01:18)
And let's not forget about their parents who have spent approximately half their lives sitting in folding chairs with snacks. Y'all, so many snacks. So yes.
Josh (01:29)
Yes, but athletic recruiting is another one of those college pathways that doesn't follow the normal admissions calendar.
Lisa (01:35)
So the rules change, the timelines change, and honestly, the whole thing feels like its own universe. And y'all, we understand that.
Josh (01:42)
Which is exactly why we also didn't want to guess about this. So we wanted to bring in someone who actually sits on the other side of those emails and evaluates recruits for a living.
Lisa (01:54)
Yes, because we can tell you what families need to be thinking about from the college counseling side. But today we want you to hear what a coach is actually thinking. So we are super excited. When should a kid reach out? When does that email get opened? Are families spending thousands of dollars on camps that do absolutely nothing? And what does "we're interested" actually mean?
Josh (02:19)
And what happens if the recruiting process doesn't end with an offer?
Lisa (02:24)
Right, and that one really matters too. So let's jump right on in. Today we have a very special guest and we are very excited. It is Brian Plotkin.
Brian grew up in Lisle, Illinois. He played at Naperville North before heading to Indiana University, where he helped the Hoosiers win back-to-back national championships and was named the 2005 Big Ten Player of the Year.
Side note. I did actually do a little digging about Brian before he joined our podcast. He is way too modest to brag. So naturally, I did it for him, because you know I love to do that.
He then went on to play professionally in the MLS before moving into coaching with stops at Loyola Chicago and Dartmouth and Notre Dame. He is now the head men's soccer coach at Army West Point and was named the 2022 Patriot League Coach of the Year.
So when I say that we went straight to the source for this episode, y'all, we really went straight to the source. Brian, welcome to the Drop In. We are so happy to have you.
Brian (03:31)
Thanks. Excited to be here with you guys.
Josh (03:32)
Well, Coach, as Lisa said, we are really glad that you're here. We do get a lot of questions about recruiting, and so many of them start with some version of, are we already too late?
So today we want to go all the way from the kid who is just beginning to think about playing in college to the student who's actively talking to coaches. And then we also want to talk about the kid for whom recruiting does not end the way they hoped. Sound good?
Brian (03:54)
Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
Josh (03:56)
All right, so here's my first question for you. Let's talk a little bit about how recruiting has changed. How much has this process changed in the last five years? Are there rules families heard from older siblings that are already outdated?
Brian (04:08)
Yeah, honestly it's changing daily at this point. There's constant check-ins on the coaching side with compliance offices about what is okay and what's not okay now.
Twenty years ago it was one phone call a week and really strict things on what could be mailed. And then now it's unlimited text messaging and unlimited phone calls that all begin on June fifteenth leading into the junior year. And that's for men's soccer.
Each sport has its own unique set of rules or start dates or when certain communication styles are allowed or not allowed. And so you can either find the information through the NCAA compliance center on the internet, or ask your club or high school coaches, and they can probably provide some accurate information on the differing dates of the sports.
Josh (04:49)
Excellent. Thank you for that, Coach. And Lisa, let's link to the NCAA compliance center in the show notes. So that way that'd be a good one-stop shop for folks to go.
Lisa (04:56)
Love that. Yep, on it.
Josh (04:58)
Excellent. Well, when you talked about the unlimited text messaging and contacting and those kinds of things, let's talk a little bit about timing. When should a student realistically start thinking about college athletic recruitment? Freshman year, sophomore year, junior year?
Brian (05:11)
Yeah, I think for most, especially nowadays, there's a pressure around it all, right? And a fear of not starting soon enough. And I think for many, there's not a correct start date, but there's just the date when you decide you want to go see what a college campus looks like.
And I think for eighth graders, freshmen, if you've had a school that was your dream school all your life and you always wanted to kind of go and maybe play for that school or just attend that school, let the process begin for you then by attending one of their ID camps. Or just go check out a game or go watch a practice. You can just show up and most coaches aren't gonna kick random people off just by showing up.
And so as you progress through it after year one, as you're into that freshman into sophomore year, that's maybe where now you want to sample some things.
Let's say, for me growing up in the Chicago suburbs, my dream school, I know I was a Hoosier, but my dream school growing up was Notre Dame. I had always wanted to attend Notre Dame. My best friend growing up went there, his father went there. I loved Notre Dame football, all that stuff.
And so I went over there and watched a couple games my sophomore year of high school fall, right? Just to see what it was like and put my feet on the ground on a campus.
And then we ended up with our club team doing a bit of barnstorming tour where we just would go play games and find a college near there and we would go see it. So whether they were large state schools, small private schools, urban schools, very rural schools, it's really about you have an idea of what you might enjoy, but then it's like go and experience it and put your feet there, walk around, and you might find something that surprises you or that you hadn't thought of that you really enjoy or don't like, either way.
And as you continue on later into your sophomore year, that's when now a little bit more of the strategic or purposeful communication with some of the colleges may start, just because the recruiting process can begin in that following summer.
So now there may be a little bit of conversation with your club coach or your high school coach about, hey, these are some of the schools I'm really interested in. How do you think I fit what they may be looking for?
And then now comes in the academics, right? You've really got to excel in your grades because ultimately that's gonna be the door opener. The grades can be the one that unlock or lock the door.
Your ability is somewhat measurable, but grades are grades, and those are gonna be the things that a coach is gonna see and there's gonna be a transcript and you can't really make too much adjustment to that.
But with your actual sport and with your play, you can develop over six to twelve months, different things can happen. And so the process can change. But I can't put a big enough emphasis on doing the best you can in the classroom from the very jump because that's gonna open all the doors.
As you get into year three then, that's really where the process starts to take off. For soccer in particular, we're a fall sport. So the fall recruiting isn't all that active just because we're competing. But once the season ends up here in about the next month, most of the Class of 2028 is gonna be pretty much inundated with all the college coaching and college recruiting dialogue, text messaging, all of that.
And then that's when the showcases pick up and the winter ID camps pick up and all of the attendance at club events come. And then it's pretty much you'd like that all the way through until really about April of their senior year now when most of the final decisions are made.
And so it starts as a slow crawl, and you can start that crawl whenever you want. But the process is kind of ongoing all around you.
Josh (08:18)
Awesome. Thank you for that. To piggyback, as you just mentioned, once your fall season ends, you'll start to focus a bit on recruiting. How proactive should students be about contacting coaches? Should they wait to be discovered?
Brian (08:29)
No. I think the proactivity goes a very long way. We receive a large number of emails. All coaches do. And it's our job to then filter through them and find those that are the best fit, whether it be academic, talent, character, all those types of things.
There is something to consistency and persistency. And in this period of the year, we may get distracted, a game may occur, we may travel, could be any number of things.
But if a name keeps popping up in an email for us right now, there's always that follow-up of, whether it be myself or one of my staff members, hey, let's make sure we check this kid out when we're at the next event. It seems like he's really interested and he's been emailing us consistently for a few months.
So there isn't really a bad time to start doing that because with consistency becomes some familiarity and recognition, and I think that that's always a good thing when you're in a recruiting process.
Lisa (09:15)
Thank you for saying that, Coach, because I think sometimes with kids, they get so nervous if they reach out to a coach and the coach doesn't get back to them.
And even we explain to them, listen, like you said, they could be traveling, they could be coaching a game. There's a lot of things that happen in life in between emails.
I think it's good for everyone to hear that consistency is the key and it's okay to reach out again if you don't hear back. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It might not be that you happened to see it or you got busy. So yeah.
Brian (09:41)
No, absolutely. And we understand it on the flip side too. We may reach out via email or text message, the student-athlete might have something busy going on, and we may not hear back for a little while.
So then we're asking a similar question, like maybe they're just not interested. But you've gotta have good follow-through and we've gotta have good follow-through as well.
So that second follow-up is always good and if needed a third. You're not gonna get the answers you're seeking. I can't guarantee the answer you want, but you're not gonna get the answer maybe you're seeking if you don't have the follow-through.
Josh (10:09)
So speaking of that follow-through and communication, could you talk to the students about what does an effective introductory email to a college coach look like?
We talk about it all the time. You should email them. What does it look like? So in your opinion, you've received some of these emails. What does an effective one look like? What does it entail?
Brian (10:25)
Yeah, no, it's funny because there are some where it's a biography, and then there are some where it's a quick summary.
And so I think there's some key components to it, right? Name, grad year, school, club team, GPA, ACT/SAT test score, highlight video.
As succinctly in some ways as you can put that, I think it goes a long way. And then let your highlight video do some of the talking for you, right?
So example, my name's Brian Plotkin. I'm the Class of 2028. I attend Naperville North High School. I play for the Chicago Sockers. I've got a 31 on my ACT and I'm really interested in Army West Point. It's a school that attracts me for its leadership and the opportunity to serve my country.
As we progress through this recruiting process, I'd love it if you could see me play. Here's a couple of events I'll be at in the future. Here's a link to my highlight video. I'm an attacking midfielder with a left foot. Hopefully that might be something that you're looking for in my class. I look forward to hearing from you, and then, good luck, Brian Plotkin.
So that might be a verbal version of it, but I think if that comes through, it's got all the pertinent information that can either kind of move you into the has-what-we-need bin in terms of academics and club level and all that stuff, or doesn't have. Maybe the grades are lower, the ACT is not quite where it needs to be.
But I think that's the best way for efficient communication from both sides.
Josh (11:45)
Awesome. Thank you so much for that, Coach. That was, I think, a really good example for our student-athletes.
Lisa (11:49)
And I'm like writing it down with my Sharpie as Brian's talking. I was like, yes, Coach. Yep. Love it. Love it. Okay. So thank you.
Josh (11:57)
All right. So we're gonna switch gears a little bit and talk a bit about sort of where the money goes in this whole process.
So, Coach, if you could talk to us, in your opinion, how important are club teams, showcases, camps, and tournaments? Are families spending money on the things that don't really move the needle?
Brian (12:12)
If the answer is both, can I say that?
Lisa (12:14)
Yes.
Josh (12:14)
Sure.
Brian (12:15)
Yeah, I think they are incredibly important. We sat today for about an hour and mapped out our events and showcases schedule for the months of November, December, and January. We kind of started to pursue flights and do all the things.
So the showcases are incredibly important and the camps are as well from both sides.
I know that there is a bit of a stigma around the camps, that they're money makers and the people that go to them, there's no recruiting that happens from them. And again, I think both can be true.
Yeah, the camps from a coaching standpoint, they are an opportunity for us to help financially support our staff as we work our way through this. But I can promise you as well that every school in the country is inviting some of their guys that they really want to see again from the showcases or from the club events to get a good evaluation with them.
Because the big difference is, and this is the part that really always goes unspoken, we really get to know the personality of the player when we get to spend a day or two with them at the camp.
Ultimately when you are in a position where you're making a judgment now on an 18-, 19-year-old joining your program, well, you need to make sure that the person that's coming matches up along with their academic and soccer, or whatever sport it may be, that ability that they've got.
And the camp really presents that in the best way because it's somewhat unknown that that's what we're observing when they come through, right?
They don't know that we're watching how they enter. They don't know we're watching how they interact with the other campers. They don't know that we're actually wanting to see how they work with some of the players that maybe aren't as high of a level as they are.
Are they good people in that moment? Are they a little bit arrogant? So the personality piece is the thing that I think goes underspoken-ish, if that's a word. That might be an editable moment there, Lisa, but you get what I mean.
Lisa (13:53)
That's the other thing, Brian. We make up words all the time. Yep, no, all the time. I make up words all the time.
Josh (13:57)
We make up words, especially Lisa does a lot.
Brian (14:03)
Yeah. And so the camp part, it's key for the character component.
And then the showcasing, the events, and giving good information on when you're going to be playing and where you're going to be playing, that's invaluable because if we show up, you tell us that and we show up, you can bet we're interested.
You tell us that and we say, hey, keep us updated on the schedule going forward, maybe that's a lack of interest on our part.
There's always the message behind the message that comes from those types of things. And hopefully this can provide a little bit of clarity for that for anybody listening.
Lisa (14:31)
Maybe that should be the name of our podcast today. The message behind the message, maybe?
Josh (14:37)
Well, Coach, I think what you're saying, and I think Lisa's gonna like this, is basically your answer to this question is it depends.
Brian (14:44)
Yeah.
Lisa (14:46)
I do like that. That's the answer. It's what I'm hearing. Thank you.
Josh (14:52)
Let's talk a little bit about admissions and fit. And you alluded to this earlier when you were talking about an effective introductory email where the student talks about what their GPA and what their testing is.
So that leads to the question of does being recruited actually improve a student's chances of being admitted to a particular college? And how much is that dependent on the school itself?
Brian (15:12)
It 100% does.
If you would have told me when I was 28 or 29, stepping away from soccer, that my college coaching career would take me in the path that it did, I would have told you you were bananas. My trajectory up till then had not been higher academia, as it was all soccer all the time.
And so having had the opportunity to begin at Loyola Chicago and start to get some understanding of what an admissions process really looks like. Then going through Dartmouth, where it really kicked into high gear and was pretty overwhelming at the start as an assistant coach learning, through Notre Dame and then now here at West Point.
There is so much that goes into all of it.
And so yes, the opportunities that sport can provide, they do help. They definitely open doors that maybe wouldn't have been open if you were applying without the benefit of your athletic ability.
But within that though, there's still incredibly high thresholds that you've got to meet in order to still find yourself offered a position within these programs.
Right, so yeah, here at West Point the testing never went away. So you always needed the ACT or the SAT score. Now there's a classic learning test that they're beginning to kind of come around and offer as well.
The rigor really matters in terms of the levels of maths and sciences and Englishes that you're taking. And so that's something we're always asking questions about.
The extracurricular and leadership activities that you're participating in, both at school and outside of school, are really important, and those are all the pieces now.
If you're merely just a good soccer player, there's gotta be something more, right? The admissions room's gonna look at it and be like, and? And if there's not an "and" to it, it's an uphill battle.
It's one of the things I know that there's this idea that you've got to devote 100% of your time to this or you're not going to be at the level that you think you should be at. And I don't think that's true.
I think you've got more than enough time in a day to find out how to be great at your sport while also being a leader within your school or joining the clubs that you have really high levels of interest in, or pursuing passions outside of the sport as well.
Because all of that does come together. Yes, at the top of the Division I level, some of that stuff maybe doesn't have as big of an impact.
But when you stay in certain areas of academic spaces, they're the deciders. They're the fractional parts that get you into rooms or get you into offer letters that might prevent you from it at other institutions.
I mean, we're really big on it with our guys. It's a big part of our admissions process. It's like, what are some of the things you do outside of just soccer?
Because we do. When we present in front of the room, we want everybody to know that these aren't just athletes that are coming here. These are future officers in the U.S. Army and people that are gonna thrive and excel here at West Point.
Josh (17:41)
Thank you for that, Coach. And I think that the emphasis on being involved in something else just outside of your sport. Obviously, you can care about your sport and be super passionate and committed to it.
But that "and" part that you were talking about in the committee, I think is important for students to recognize that there needs to be something else there.
Brian (17:57)
Yeah, absolutely.
Josh (17:58)
Another question for you. Can a student actually have a better athletic and academic experience at a Division III school versus the same thing at a Division I school?
Brian (18:06)
100%. 100%.
I find it fascinating. One of my best friends in all of coaching, when we met, he was an assistant at a Big Ten school. And then his next job was the head of one of the best Division III academic schools in the country, who he helped turn into one of the best soccer teams in the country. Then he transitioned again back into a Division I soccer program.
I remember talking with him at the time about it and the experiences that his guys were having.
They were loving soccer, they were so passionate about it. But all these things that they were doing on the side, right?
Division I, especially now there's this big vote happening where we might go into a two-semester model, and it'll become competitive in both the fall and the spring.
The opposition voice on that is that it'll take away some of the opportunities for these guys to be college students.
But at the Division III level, that doesn't exist. They're gonna always have the opportunity in the spring to pursue whatever some of the academic passions that they may have because the spring season has a much different cadence than the fall.
Summers are limited access, if any access, at the Division III level. And so internships, travel, study abroads, all of those types of things are available to them.
And so I think everybody envisions I'm gonna go to the best soccer school I can and I'm gonna break into the lineup and I'm gonna be a 90-minutes player and all of this and that.
And step away from that and think about some of the parts of the process that you can control.
If you really want to go to a school where participating in a study abroad program is a big part of what you want from your college experience, well, a Division I program will be difficult to do that. And that's okay.
If certain types of internships in the summer or certain types of research programs that you want to participate in, if those are things that are really highly valued in what you want your college process to be, don't forego those because you want to chase the idea of a Division I program.
Stick with it because the Division III landscape's got all of that in spades.
And I think it's a wonderful soccer experience, but you build these relationships and have these other opportunities that, I think there's moments where our guys at the Division I level look and there's some moments where they're like, man, it'd be nice to have that right now or to be able to do that.
That's just a little bit of the difference of the levels, but yeah, you 100% can have a better experience at the Division III level than the Division I.
Josh (20:15)
Okay, a couple of other questions here. Can you clarify what's the difference between a walk-on and a preferred walk-on? What should families clarify from coaches about those opportunities?
Brian (20:25)
Yeah, so questions, questions, questions.
Ask for the most clear answer that you can get. And if you have any sort of uncertainty in your brain about what the coach is saying, ask the follow-up question.
Get the words that you need to hear to feel like you've got the clarity that you need. And that's okay. That is 100% okay.
We want it as well. We don't want there to be this misunderstanding at some point.
And so continue to ask the questions to get the clarity of the answer that you're seeking.
Preferred walk-on might mean that you've been able to make admissions aware of their academic status, that if they're admitted, they might be someone that would be on your roster.
And then a walk-on is someone that you know of and you're like, let us know if you get in on your own.
And then depending on where our roster is at, we may have a spot for you in the fall. But if not, in the spring, there will be opportunities for you to look to join the program.
And so that's probably the biggest difference between those two roles.
Josh (21:18)
When a coach says there is scholarship money available, what questions should a family ask?
Brian (21:23)
That's a really good one. It's touchy and I'm sure it's unsettling, right? Because it's the hard questions.
I think first of all, for the families, have in your mind a budget. What is a dollar amount that you are able to spend on your son's or daughter's college experience?
Because the scholarship numbers are increasing in terms of what schools are able to offer. But I also find then that these are becoming more very large or very small in terms of the quantity.
My inexperience, and it shows a little bit here because here we don't deal in that. Just as a federally funded program, everybody here comes on a full scholarship.
But I think that as you're in this process, and I remember it at Notre Dame, not at Dartmouth obviously without the athletic scholarship, but at Loyola, build a relationship with the coaching staff. One where you feel comfortable and you build trust.
And with that, it'll enable those conversations to flow a little bit easier. And I encourage early on, just ask some questions around it.
Hey, what is the scholarship amount that you're looking at in the Class of 2027? How do you guys typically look to spread the scholarships out? Is there opportunity for athletic? Is it academic? Are there third-party scholarships that we have access to? Are you able to stack them together to create more reasonable funding?
And these are some of the questions that you can ask that hopefully start the conversation. And then once the conversation's started, it's easier to continue and have follow-up.
But I can certainly understand the hesitancy in engaging that from the beginning.
But in the end, it's much like potentially maybe buying a house, right? You set a budget and that's where your budget's at.
Now you can always go above that a little bit if you feel like it's the best decision. But going in with a number that you think is reasonable for you to then be able to afford, I think is the best way because you have a starting point. And then the coaches will have a starting point as well.
And typically it does become a good bit of conversation about what is affordable versus what is the market value, let's just say.
And then because ultimately, and this is a little bit less so now, but a few years ago it used to be 9.9 scholarships was the maximum amount on a soccer team.
So you would try and thread the needle on maximizing that 9.9 as much as you could.
And so with that, it may not be, well, that player's going to start and play every minute for us, so we're going to give them a full scholarship.
It could be a scenario where, hey, they can afford X amount. So if we can get that, well, then we can get these other players with these other scholarship amounts.
So there's no exact science. There's no right or wrong way to approach it.
There's just ultimately where you want to find yourself in a situation with scholarship where you feel really good about the offer because you feel like it fits your finances and you feel like it's a program that's wanting you.
And then they also feel good about it because they're getting a player that they're excited about and investing in to help their program going forward.
Josh (24:11)
Let's talk a little bit about name, image, and likeness, NIL. How has that changed recruiting expectations for high school students, even for those who are not maybe elite-level athletes?
Brian (24:21)
Yeah, it's everywhere. What it's done, it's allowing people now to make some money.
I remember there was a story going around about a year ago when all this was starting to really kind of turn over and dollar values were starting to become higher and higher.
And it's like, well, nobody stops the Juilliard violinist from making some money. So why can't the tennis player at the University of Illinois make some money?
And in those types of ways, when you kind of take it out of the realm of sport and kind of just put it into unique abilities, there's probably some opportunity for some financial gain.
And so it's interesting because it exists mainly, as we know, in football and the basketballs, and then some in baseball as well.
But in some of the non-revenue sports, it's present as well. It's just what schools are willing to invest in it.
I'd venture to say that of the 210 or so Division I men's soccer programs, it probably exists within 30 to 40 of them.
But if even within that, it probably only exists within anywhere from four to six players on each of those rosters. And we're not talking large sums of money here. We're talking numbers in hundreds or small thousands.
And so with all of that, it's something that is going to continue to evolve and change and I think you'll see more and more investment in it as schools get more creative and find ways for it.
But I think it's only something that will help. I don't foresee a way that, at least in the men's soccer world, that it's hurting the sport in any way.
Josh (25:38)
What are the biggest red flags families should watch for when communicating with college coaches?
Brian (25:44)
Oof, how honest should I be? Lisa, what do you think?
Lisa (25:47)
Well, I think you should be super honest, but that's just me.
Brian (25:50)
Okay. All right. So with us, I think honestly, parents shouldn't do the communicating. It should all come through the kids. It should all come through the kids.
We have stopped recruiting. We have had really honest communications with players we've been recruiting because the parents are too involved.
That's just not the way that this runs. When they get here, they're with us. They're a member of Army Soccer.
And at other programs too, the coaches wanna know that the relationships have been fully formed with the players, right? And their athletes and their student-athletes and being able to have trust.
And the overarching or over-involved parent is probably the biggest red flag that can exist as we work our way through this.
And so I ask because I also know that the parents are some of the ones that can be involved in admissions processes as well. So I didn't wanna hurt the podcast numbers at all by saying parents stay out of the way.
Lisa (26:45)
Brian. No, I don't think we could have played that better. So thank you for saying that because we say that a lot.
Parents need to start backing away. We know they love their students.
In fact, what we tell parents every time is that their children can handle disappointment. What they can't handle is disappointing them.
And I think sometimes that parents don't realize that. And in turn, parents are the red flags a lot in this process. Parents, we love you.
But you are the red flag. Again, another sticker. I will die on that hill. That is going on our merch spreadsheet. Yes, it is.
Josh (27:18)
Wow. Okay. Well, so Coach, what are three things every student-athlete should do before reaching out to a college coach?
Brian (27:25)
Have a fun fact about the school. Something that connects you. It can be a family member, friend went to the school, a recent game that they played, a bit of research about the coach or the coaching staff, or a connection you have to a player on the team. Something in that space.
I'd say after that then, the correct information.
Again, not red flags, but you get a little bit disappointed when you read and you're on just a mass email, right? Where who knows how many people are in the BCC line.
And then the last part is just make sure the details of the email or the outreach are correct.
You'd be surprised the number of emails that we receive that says, I'm really excited about attending Rutgers University, right?
And it was like, hey, I know you were emailing a bunch of schools today, but let's make sure we proofread what you've done and send it out with accuracy.
Because all the coaches at different moments, depending on our moods, we might or might not have a little bit of fun with that.
But there's been times where I would reply all to that and put the coach of the school that's named and be like, hey, I think this was meant for you. And then the kid emails an apology and it's a little bit of fun.
Lisa (28:24)
We're gonna be best friends. I love this so much.
Josh (28:27)
Oh boy. Okay. That's a kid's worst nightmare. Wow. Okay.
Well, you heard it here, students and parents. Details matter. The little things actually do matter.
Lisa (28:34)
Details matter.
Josh (28:37)
So Coach, what would you say to the student, the athlete who doesn't get recruited to play in college and they feel like years of hard work have been wasted?
Brian (28:45)
The benefits of what you've done in terms of the process in itself are going to benefit you for years to come in the future.
You developed toughness and resilience that you didn't even know you were developing, and you're better for it.
And you multiply that on with that you pursued something with your heart and soul and experienced failure. Welcome to a little bit later in life.
And you now have a process for how to overcome it and persevere through it.
And now hopefully as you worked your way through it, you did have some good guidance and didn't put all your eggs into one basket. And you now have other options.
And even though the one option that you always had dreamed maybe didn't work out, it doesn't mean that it was the right or wrong thing for you.
Just go make the best of where your feet are next.
And if it's that important to you, go try to walk on to the school you're now attending. And if you can't do that, well, there's club teams and there's other opportunities to stay involved in the game or the sport that you love once you're at the new institution as well.
But everybody's career ends someday. For some they get to choose it, and that's a very few. And then for most of us it ends with someone telling us no.
And that is whether you're a 35-year-old pro or in some cases a 17-year-old high school senior.
And so that's an emotion we can all empathize with and want to help, and watch people grow and succeed after that moment's happened for all of us.
Lisa (30:02)
Ooh. Yeah. We do, Brian. I love it.
Josh (30:02)
That was powerful. That's great advice there. That's awesome.
All righty, Coach. We're gonna switch things up a little bit. We're gonna do a lightning round. We're gonna do quick questions, straight answers, no overthinking.
Lisa (30:15)
I mean, Coach, you're used to making these quick calls. Like this should be easy peasy, right?
Brian (30:20)
I hope so. I hope I don't misspeak here, so we'll see.
Josh (30:23)
Alrighty, we're gonna start with a warm-up question. So we'll give you a softball right down the middle.
Lisa (30:28)
Don't overthink it. First thing that comes to mind. Short answers.
Brian (30:32)
And short answers, right? No long explanations. All right, I'm on it.
Josh (30:32)
What is the biggest misconception families have about athletic recruiting?
Brian (30:40)
That everybody ends it happy.
Lisa (30:43)
Okay. Whoo, I liked that. When is it already too late to start reaching out?
Brian (30:49)
Never too late, especially given the transfer portal now. Schools are recruiting classes all the way up to almost the first day of class.
Josh (30:58)
Alrighty, Coach. Highlight video, one minute, three minutes, or five minutes?
Brian (31:02)
Three to five. But make sure in the beginning and the end you have all of your contact information, grad year, and always put your GPA and test score.
Lisa (31:09)
Ooh, y'all, this is so much fun. I love this so much. Okay, so Brian, fill in the blank. The fastest way to get your email deleted is...
Brian (31:19)
Address it incorrectly.
Lisa (31:22)
I knew you were gonna say that.
Josh (31:24)
Alrighty, Coach, camp or showcase, which one gets you seen?
Brian (31:36)
Showcase.
Lisa (31:37)
Okay, so grades or game film, and you can only pick one. What's best?
Brian (31:41)
Grades.
Josh (31:41)
Alright, Coach, finish this sentence. The best recruit I ever signed was the one who...
Brian (31:47)
Loved... man. Wow. The best recruit I ever signed was the one who... graduated.
Josh (31:55)
Nice.
Lisa (31:55)
Good. See? Look at that. Easy peasy is right.
Lisa (31:58)
We're done. Lightning round. I really think that parents are going to actually rewind to hear at least three of those answers, if not all seven. So thank you, Coach. That was awesome. One hundred percent.
Josh (32:08)
Yeah, especially number three I think is gonna be on a loop.
Lisa (32:13)
All right, y'all. So we are getting towards the end of our podcast. So you know what time it is.
Coach, I know you're new to this, but it's called Hot Take or Hard Truth. Josh and I will go first and we will give you the last word. Does that work?
Brian (32:29)
Mm-hmm.
Lisa (32:30)
Okay. All right, Josh, you are first, sir.
Josh (32:32)
Okay, so here's mine for students. Pick the school you would still want to go to if you cannot play your sport there.
And I don't mean that in a doom-and-gloom way, but injuries happen, coaches leave, rosters change, playing times change, and eventually for every athlete, as Coach mentioned earlier, the sport ends.
So when you're comparing schools, look beyond the locker room.
Do you like the academics? Do you like the campus? Can you see yourself with those students?
Does the major you want actually exist at that particular school? Would you still want that degree?
Because if the only reason you want to attend the college is because of the sport, I think you need to look harder at the college.
Lisa (33:09)
Because kiddos, we know the sport is a huge part of who you are. You've been playing it probably since you were five, and your best friends come from the sport. Your family's entire weekend schedule revolves around it.
But you are choosing where you are going to live for the next four years, not just where you're gonna practice. And that part matters, y'all, because man, it's truly the best part.
Gosh, Josh, that was a good one.
Okay, all right. Let me think. Okay, mine, I'm gonna change it up. I think I'm gonna direct it to parents this time.
This is going back to what Brian was saying about scholarships.
Please do not make the athletic scholarship the trophy at the end of this entire process.
We know families have spent years paying for club teams and travel and camps and showcases and trainers and private coaching. Y'all, all of it. That can be exhausting.
And somewhere along the way, it can start to feel like the goal is to get your money back through that athletic scholarship.
And yes, the money is great, but that is one piece of this whole pie when it comes to paying for college.
Your kiddo's grades may unlock academic merit aid. The college may offer other scholarships. Like Brian said, the financial aid package matters.
And sometimes the school giving you the biggest athletic scholarship is still the most expensive option you have.
Josh (34:36)
Yeah. Please, parents and students, compare the actual bottom line.
Lisa (34:39)
Exactly. Yes, like Josh said, compare the actual bottom line.
Because bigger scholarship number does not automatically mean the cheaper college.
Look at what your family is actually expected to pay. Look at whether those numbers work for four years, y'all. Not one year, four years.
Be proactive. And please do not let the phrase "athletic scholarship" make the decision for you.
Woo, all right, Coach. Your turn.
Brian (35:08)
Yeah, I'd say your identity isn't tied to this process.
You are going to go on to an institution and you're going to meet some of your best friends in life and you're going to compete with them on the field, or you may meet them in a dorm room, or you may meet them in your psychology class.
But there isn't a winner and a loser to this process. There is just the next stage in your life.
And so don't define anything and don't feel like you've made it or that you've lost it.
Just engage in the process. Find the school you're most excited about, like Josh was saying, whether soccer or whatever sport exists there or it doesn't, and then go in there and go make it the best four years of your life.
Lisa (35:45)
I just have my next week's Your Loving College Counselor post for LinkedIn. So thank you, Coach. I might steal it, but I will give you credit. I will.
Josh (35:53)
Thank you, Coach, for that. Certainly something for parents and students to discuss.
Lisa (35:56)
All right, so we've done Hard Truth, Hot Take. So now it is Drop the Mic time.
Don't worry, to the two gentlemen on this podcast, I will take one for the team and I will start. So y'all be thinking.
This time it's going to be directed to athletes.
So y'all, remember, you are more than your position, your stats, your ranking, and your highlight reel that is supposed to be three to five minutes.
Okay. So I really need kiddos to hear this because recruiting can make you feel like you are being measured all of the time.
How fast are you? How many goals did you score? What team do you play for? What level? What are your numbers? What is your ranking?
And after a while, y'all, we get it. It starts to feel that that is who you are. And that's all you are.
And it isn't.
Remember what Brian said. A coach is going to be recruiting an athlete, but they are also bringing that person, you, into the locker room for four years.
So be coachable. Be the kid who works. Be the teammate who shows up when things are bananas. Be a teammate who your team wants to hang around with for the next four years.
And if recruiting does not end the way you really hoped it would, please do not turn this whole process into a verdict of all the years that you gave to the sport.
Those years mattered.
The work that you did still matters.
The friendships that you made still matter.
The person you became while doing all of this, y'all, still matters.
And none of that disappears because a college coach told you no.
Josh (37:40)
Wow, that was pretty good, Lisa. Those are some good bars, some good gems to pluck out there.
Lisa (37:43)
Thank you. I've actually been sitting on that for the whole episode. So thank you. Thank you.
Josh (37:49)
All right, well mine is gonna be also directed towards the students.
I think Coach alluded to it earlier. Don't wait to be found.
I think there's still this idea that if you're talented enough, eventually some coach is gonna show up at the right tournament, see you play, and everything's gonna take care of itself.
I think we've seen a couple of movies like that. That might happen, but that also sounds like it's more Hollywood. So that's not a recruiting strategy.
Do the research. Figure out which programs actually fit you academically and athletically.
Send the email, but use Coach's advice to make sure you get it right.
Give the coach your information. Give them the information they need. Make your video easy to watch. Keep your grades up. Follow up when it makes sense.
That being consistent and persistent again, the Coach mentioned earlier.
And if you are genuinely interested in the program, let them know that.
You can't control whether a coach recruits you. You can control whether you gave yourself a real opportunity to be seen.
Lisa (38:45)
Yes, y'all, do not sit around. You're not just gonna be magically discovered.
Josh (38:49)
Exactly. So make it easy for the right coach to find the right information about you.
Lisa (38:54)
Right. Correct. One hundred percent. Okay, Coach, you get the last word.
Brian (38:59)
Recruiting is just like a soccer game. There's gonna be highs, there's gonna be lows, there's gonna be great plays, there's gonna be mistakes, and there's gonna be moments where you're gonna wonder if you did something that's irreversible.
And the truth is you didn't.
It's just the next play. You're on to it. Just keep on.
And when the final whistle blows and you end up at the college that you're at on the first day of your freshman year, just know that the process got you there and be proud of yourself.
Lisa (39:26)
Look at you. Good job. I love that.
Brian (39:28)
Thank you.
Lisa (39:29)
I mean, mic dropped. Like it. Love it.
Brian (39:32)
My alums would be really upset with me if this wasn't the last two words though. Beat Navy.
Josh (39:36)
I was actually waiting to see when that would come up. I figured that it would probably...
Lisa (39:38)
And you were gonna put that in.
Josh (39:41)
I knew you'd sneak that in somewhere. So wow, okay, that was pretty good.
Lisa (39:47)
I know, I was waiting. I was like, well, he hasn't said it yet.
Josh (39:51)
In all seriousness, thank you, Coach. I think the information that you've given us is exactly what I think our athletes and their families needed to hear.
Brian (39:58)
Good. No, I appreciate you guys reaching out and if you ever need any further help or anything, I'm always happy to hop on a call.
And even if it's one of your clients that's looking for some guidance, I'd love to help out.
Lisa (40:08)
Please remember, reach out to us and we will definitely get you in contact with Coach Plotkin. Thank you, thank you.
Josh (40:12)
Yeah. So next week on Drop In, students and families, we're talking about the moment every senior has been waiting for.
You finally hit that submit button.
So we're going to go behind the curtain. What happens to your application once it leaves your laptop? Who actually reads it? And how long do they really spend on it?
Lisa (40:31)
Right. And does your regional admissions officer really have a say in it? And how is AI getting involved in the reading process? Because that's been really big lately.
Josh (40:39)
Plus most importantly, what you should be doing while you wait. Can you send in updates? And what if you find a mistake after you hit submit? Can you fix it?
Lisa (40:48)
Yes, and that typically happens.
So seniors, if you've just hit submit or you're about to, which pretty much means we're talking to every single senior right now in the world, you have got to listen next week because it's got your name written all over it.
Josh (41:04)
That's right, seniors. Don't miss it.
Lisa (41:05)
Do not miss it.
So remember, we are Decision Drop, making your college journey collaborative, simple, and most importantly, yours.
So if you're a student-athlete, there's offers on the table and you don't know what to do, we would love to be in your corner. Please head over to decisiondrop.com and check us out.
Josh (41:23)
Thanks for dropping in, y'all. We'll see you next week.
Lisa (41:25)
Bye. And don't forget to like and subscribe.
