Episode 13: How Much Should Parents Help With College Applications?
Episode Description:
In Episode 13 of Drop In, Lisa and Josh welcome their first guest, Mary O’Malley, Co-Head of Admissions Advising at Union Hall Advising and author of the Admitted-ish Substack, to tackle one of the biggest questions parents face during college application season:
How much should I actually be helping my kid?
Mary has worked in college admissions, independent school admissions, college counseling, enrollment management, and financial aid. She has also read applications for highly selective universities. She joins Lisa and Josh to explain what admissions professionals actually want to encounter in an application: the student.
They discuss why a teenager should sound like a teenager, why a college essay does not need to make anyone cry, and why some of the strongest personal statements grow from completely ordinary experiences. An essay about curly hair, a crossword puzzle, a family routine, or something a parent says every morning can be powerful when it reveals how that particular student thinks and moves through the world.
The difficult part for parents is knowing when to back away from the keyboard.
Helpful feedback gives a student something to think about. Rewriting gives them something to copy and paste. Parents can ask questions, point out confusing sections, flag missing information, and help students decide whether an essay communicates what they intended. They should not replace the student’s language, choose the lesson, or insist on the story they believe will sound most impressive.
For more guidance on maintaining a student’s authentic voice, listen to Episode 4: Common App Essay Tips. You can also read this week’s companion article, How Much Should Parents Help With College Applications? Supporting Without Taking Over.
Lisa, Josh, and Mary also answer a question families regularly ask: Should parents fill out the Common App?
The student should remain responsible for the application, including the choices, descriptions, experiences, and ideas it contains. Parents may need to provide information students genuinely do not know, such as family education history or employment details. They can also review the final application PDF before submission. But the application belongs to the student.
The episode also recognizes that student ownership does not require every student to work without assistance. Accessibility support, help navigating forms, breaking large tasks into smaller steps, and organizational guidance can all preserve student ownership when the thinking and decisions still belong to the applicant.
Parental support should look different for different students. Some teenagers can build a calendar and begin working independently. Others need help getting started, managing deadlines, or understanding what a question is asking. The useful question is not, “How much should every parent do?” It is, “What is the actual obstacle for this student?”
One practical recommendation is to schedule a weekly college check-in. A designated time for discussing applications can keep college admissions from ambushing the family every time someone opens the refrigerator.
Parents can also help by listening before giving their own opinion. After a college visit, allow the student to react first. Ask what felt comfortable, what did not, and what shaped that reaction. Students need room to form their own opinions about colleges, even when those opinions differ from what their parents expected.
The same principle applies when admissions decisions arrive. College decisions are affected by enrollment goals, institutional priorities, program capacity, and competition among many qualified applicants. An acceptance or denial is not a verdict on a student’s worth.
It is also not a parenting report card.
Parents have an important role in the college application process. Keep track of deadlines. Ask useful questions. Help students find information they do not have. Provide structure when they are overwhelmed. Most importantly, be the calm place they can return to when the process becomes stressful.
Then let them own it.
Let them write in their own voice. Let them make choices you might have made differently. Let them occasionally complete something imperfectly. The goal is not to manufacture the most polished application possible. The goal is to help a student become a young adult who can arrive on a college campus and begin figuring things out independently.
Love your kiddo more than you love the outcome.
Decision Drop’s senior college application services provide student-centered support with essays, college lists, applications, timelines, and admissions strategy while keeping the student’s voice and ownership at the center. If your family would like help finding the right balance, schedule a free consultation with Lisa and Josh.
And be sure to subscribe to Mary O’Malley’s Admitted-ish Substack for smart, honest, and refreshingly calm college admissions advice.
In This Episode
How much parents should help with college applications
What authentic student voice sounds like
Why teenagers should sound like teenagers in their essays
Why ordinary college essay topics can be powerful
Helpful parent feedback versus rewriting
Why parents should ask permission before reading an essay
Why the family editorial board usually makes essays worse
Whether parents should fill out the Common App
When parental assistance is appropriate
Student ownership and accessibility support
Why different students need different kinds of help
How weekly college check-ins reduce family stress
Why parents should listen before sharing their opinions
College visits, fit, and student reactions
Why admissions decisions are unpredictable
Why rejection is not a verdict on a student’s worth
Why college admission is not a parenting report card
Letting students make mistakes before college
Why parents should be the calm during application season
🎙️ Also available on: Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | iHeart
Top Questions Answered in this Episode
How much should parents help with college applications?
Parents should provide structure, logistical support, and a calm place for students to ask questions. They can help track deadlines, discuss affordability, provide family information, and break overwhelming tasks into manageable steps. The student should still make the decisions, write the essays, describe their activities, communicate with colleges, and remain responsible for what the application says. The right amount of help depends on the individual student, but the thinking, experiences, choices, and voice should always belong to the applicant.
Should parents edit their child’s college essay?
Parents can be helpful readers, but they should not rewrite the college essay. Useful feedback gives the student something to think about, such as identifying a confusing passage, asking whether an important detail is missing, or explaining where the reader became lost. Replacing words, rewriting sentences, selecting the lesson, or insisting on a more impressive topic can remove the student’s voice. A college essay should sound like a thoughtful teenager, not an adult writing under a teenager’s name.
Should parents ask permission before reading a college essay?
Yes. Students may be writing about personal experiences they are not ready to share with every family member. Parents should ask whether the student wants them to read the essay and agree in advance on what kind of feedback would be helpful. Some students want comments on clarity. Others only want proofreading or reassurance that the story makes sense. Asking permission respects the student’s ownership and can prevent the essay process from becoming an emotionally charged family editorial meeting.
Can parents fill out the Common App for their student?
The student should complete and remain responsible for the Common App. Parents can provide information a teenager may not know, such as dates, family education history, employment details, or financial information. They may also review the final application PDF before submission. However, the student should make the substantive choices, describe their own activities, answer college-specific questions, and understand everything being submitted. Accessibility or organizational support can be appropriate without transferring ownership of the application away from the student.
How can parents keep college applications from taking over family life?
Schedule a regular college check-in, perhaps once each week, instead of bringing up applications at dinner, in the car, or every time a deadline comes to mind. Use that meeting to review what has been completed, identify the next steps, and determine whether the student needs help. Outside that time, allow the student and family to talk about something else. A predictable routine reduces reminders, defensiveness, and the feeling that college admissions has taken over every family interaction.
Should parents share their opinions during college visits?
Parents should listen to the student’s reaction before offering their own. After a visit, ask what the student noticed, what felt comfortable, what did not, and whether the experience changed their opinion of the college. A parent’s enthusiasm can unintentionally make it harder for a student to admit that a school did not feel right. Parents should participate in conversations about cost, logistics, and family priorities, but students also need space to develop honest opinions about where they may live and learn.
Does every student need the same amount of parental support?
No. Some students can create a calendar and work independently, while others need help starting tasks, interpreting questions, managing time, or navigating an application platform. Parents should identify the student’s actual obstacle and respond to that need instead of following a universal formula. Appropriate assistance, including accessibility support, does not take away ownership when the student’s thinking, choices, experiences, and voice remain at the center of the application.
Why is a college acceptance letter not a parenting report card?
College admissions decisions reflect far more than the quality of a student or their parents. Colleges consider institutional priorities, enrollment goals, available space, academic programs, geography, financial considerations, and the composition of the class they are trying to build. Many qualified students are denied simply because there are not enough places. An acceptance from a famous college does not award extra parenting credit, and a rejection does not mean anyone failed. The better measures are whether the student can ask for help, make thoughtful choices, and knows their family is proud of them before the decision arrives.
Chapters
00:19 Welcome to Episode 13
00:43 Meet Mary O’Malley, the first Drop In guest
04:20 Why loving parents sometimes help too much
05:13 What authentic student voice sounds like
08:34 Why ordinary college essay topics can work
10:24 Helpful feedback versus rewriting
14:43 Should parents fill out the Common App?
18:45 Accessibility support and student ownership
19:10 Why different students need different support
20:26 Weekly college check-ins and family stress
22:31 Let students react to college visits first
24:24 What parents should understand about decisions
27:02 What supportive parenting looks like
29:15 Hot Takes or Hard Truths
34:08 Be the calm and love the kiddo more than the outcome
36:50 Next week: test anxiety and testing strategy
Read the Full Episode Transcript
Josh (00:19)
Every week we drop the noise and
Lisa (00:21)
Drop the stress.
Josh (00:23)
Drop some knowledge.
Lisa (00:24)
Welcome to the Drop In, the college admissions podcast by Decision Drop. If you want to learn more about our services or have Josh and I guide your family through this process personally, head over to decisiondrop.com and check us out. And please like and subscribe.
Josh (00:39)
I'm Josh.
Lisa (00:40)
I'm Lisa. Let's go!
Josh (00:43)
All right, Lisa, lucky episode 13. And today...
Lisa (00:45)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (00:46)
...is kind of a big day for us here at Drop In because we're doing something we've never done before.
Lisa (00:51)
It's true, y'all. We have a guest.
Josh (00:54)
We do. Our very first guest.
Lisa (00:56)
And we could not be more pumped about who it is.
Josh (01:00)
Yeah, so today we're talking about something almost every parent wrestles with during application season, which is: How much should I actually be helping my kid? Should you edit the essay? Should you be sitting next to them while they fill out their Common App? When are you supporting, and when have you crossed the line into doing it for them?
Lisa (01:17)
So Josh and I could not think of any better person to join us today to really tackle all of these questions. And we are so excited to welcome Mary O'Malley to the Drop In. Mary is actually a longtime friend of ours. And more importantly, though, she's an amazing human. And she is someone who has seen college admissions from just about every possible angle that you can think of.
Lisa
She is currently the Co-Head of Admissions Advising at Union Hall Advising, but over the course of her career, she has worked in college admissions, independent school admissions, college counseling, enrollment management, and financial aid. She has also read applications for very highly selective universities. So let's be honest, y'all. She knows what this process looks like from both sides of the desk.
Lisa
But truly, what we love most about Mary is that after all of those years in admissions, she still loves working with teenagers, which you know is super important to Josh and me because that's our number one reason that we do this. Mary also believes that the college process should help kiddos figure out who they are and what they want, not turn them into some manufactured version of the perfect applicant.
Lisa
And to top it off, she's smart, she's funny, she's deeply experienced, and reassuringly allergic to college admissions hysteria. She'll tell you exactly why it matters and why it doesn't, and when everybody needs to stop losing their minds. Basically, y'all, she's the GOAT. Mary will hate that I said that, which is why I want to say it again. And it's one of the many reasons that I love her, and I will always say it.
Josh (02:57)
Mary, you're the person to give us the exact kind of full-picture perspective that a lot of families almost never get to hear.
Lisa (03:03)
And something else that she probably won't say, even though she should, and I'm going to fangirl a little here: Mary also writes the best Substack out there, y'all. It's called Admitted-ish. Seriously, if you are anywhere in this process, you must go and subscribe. My husband, who only knows about this process because he hears what I say on the podcast or hears when I'm talking to a student, loves Mary's Substack.
Lisa
It's truly one of his favorite parts of the day or the week. It is that good, y'all, and I do not say that lightly. Mary believes that behind every acceptance letter is a real story and a real plan, and that good strategy beats last-minute stress every time. Honestly, that could be the tagline of our entire episode today.
Lisa
And I know Josh is going to hate this, but I'm going to say we could add that tagline to our sticker spreadsheet, which is getting very long. And we will have sticker merch soon, by the way. I know I keep saying that, but it's 100 percent going to happen. So, Mary, welcome to the Drop In. We are so happy to have you.
Mary O'Malley (04:09)
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. And I can't wait for the stickers.
Lisa (04:12)
Yay. Thank you. See, Josh? That's just one person who can't wait for the stickers. I think we've got a few.
Josh (04:20)
Mary, we'll talk off-air.
Lisa (04:22)
Maybe comment down below if you really do want some stickers so we can show Josh that it really will be a good thing. Let's work on that, y'all.
Lisa
Here's the thing that we want parents to hear before we get into any of this episode. Most parents who overhelp are doing it for all the right reasons, and the three of us know that. Everyone knows that. We know in your heart you want to do what's best for your kiddo. And you want this to go well because you see them stressed out, and every instinct in you says, “My gosh, I need to fix this,” or, “I need to help you in this way.”
Lisa
And that is one of the many reasons this process is so hard. Because truly, sometimes helping more is not actually helping.
Josh (05:07)
Yeah, Lisa, and that's pretty much the heart of this episode. We have Mary here, so let's get into it.
Lisa (05:12)
Love it. Let's do it.
Josh (05:13)
All right, Mary, let's just dive right in. You've worked with so many students and families over the years, and you've seen this whole process from just about every angle, as Lisa mentioned. So I'd like to start with the big picture and then get into the specifics that parents are really wrestling with.
Josh
Here's my first one for you. When an application really sounds like the student, what does that look like to you? What makes a student's own voice come through?
Mary O'Malley (05:36)
That's a great question. I feel very strongly that a teenager should sound like a teenager.
Lisa (05:42)
Mm.
Mary O'Malley (05:42)
That kind of seems earth-shattering in some regard.
Lisa (05:46)
Yeah.
Mary O'Malley (05:47)
But teenagers are a funny blend. They're thoughtful and funny and uncertain and, you know, still trying to figure things out. Let them be that.
Mary O'Malley
I don't need every experience to be tied up with some grand life lesson. If a student wants to talk about their job, I want to understand what happens on their shift and why it matters to them. The voice in an application comes through in what they choose to tell me, as well as in the words they use.
Mary O'Malley
I feel like after all these years, I can get a sense of the person behind the activities and the grades. I want to know what they notice, what makes them curious, and what they care enough to spend time on when no one else is keeping score. Those details really matter to me as much as a string of impressive adjectives.
Lisa (06:28)
Mary, you make such a good point. If it doesn't sound like them, right? Because I was just watching something on TikTok, because we get sent them all the time, and it was someone in our space saying, “I wish college counselors would stop telling them to be them.” But I will never stop telling a kid to be them.
Lisa
Yes, you can curate your application to be what the school wants, but you can also still have it sound like you. It can still sound like the kiddo. If a student walks into our office or works on an application and I don't truly understand who they are, then I feel like they defeated the whole purpose.
Lisa
If your mom could have written the same application, then that's when we have the problem. That is a hill I will die on. It still needs to sound like you.
Mary O'Malley (07:09)
And what I don't understand is, why would you want it to sound like a 45-year-old woman?
Lisa (07:15)
I don't know.
Mary O'Malley (07:16)
You're you. A college is admitting you. I want you to show up as you are, because you're wonderful and brilliant and kind and thoughtful. Let those things show.
Lisa (07:24)
Right. True. Yeah.
Josh (07:25)
Yeah. Mary, what I run into, especially around essays, is this: What do you think makes an essay land with the student? What are you hoping to feel when you read a student's essay?
Mary O'Malley (07:36)
Here's a hill I will die on. I want to feel like I've met them in the essay. I want to come away with an understanding of how this student thinks or moves through the world.
Mary O'Malley
At this point, I feel like the three of us have read every potential topic in the Common App essay. There's not a lot that's going to shock me. The topic doesn't have to be extraordinary. I like the small, specific stories that give me a better piece of understanding.
Mary O'Malley
Rather than an essay that tries to cover their entire life and be a list of their activities, I want a student to tell me what happened, but spend time on why they keep thinking about it. That's the curious piece. Every kid is curious in their own different ways. What did you notice? What surprised you? What are you still working out? Those are the cool questions.
Lisa (08:24)
I think, too, that the topic can be incredibly ordinary as long as it's from their perspective, and then that's going to make it very interesting.
Josh (08:34)
Yeah, just to dig into that a little bit more. I've encountered parents who felt like their student's essay wasn't good enough. It wasn't this grandiose idea. As you mentioned, it was ordinary. Can you talk a bit more about the push and pull there, with parents wanting something more than what a student is even interested in writing, and how we can navigate that?
Mary O'Malley (08:55)
I feel like there's pressure that the essay has to make someone cry or that it has to show their most painful experience. Whereas my favorite essays, one was about a girl going through bat and bar mitzvah season with curly hair and learning to grow into her curly hair. Another was about doing the crossword with her father every morning.
Mary O'Malley
I have a student working on an essay right now about something her dad would say to her every morning as she got out of the car to go to school. There's room for humor. There's room for ordinary life and real, genuine enthusiasm about whatever it is for that kid.
Mary O'Malley
The essay needs to be something meaningful about you. It doesn't have to be, what's that Costco essay? It's quite something. But I feel like if a student knows that the admission officer wants to hear their voice, that's what's going to make it successful.
Lisa (09:49)
I think it was three or four years ago, on TikTok or Reels, everybody was talking about how this one person got into all these Ivies because they were talking about all these condiments that they liked. And I seriously got three essays in a row talking about different condiments.
Lisa
And I was like, “Do you like ranch?” And they were like, “No.” Then why did you talk about it? “Well, my mom heard this...” Yeah, but if you don't like ranch, then it doesn't matter. This essay isn't about how you don't like ranch. This essay is screaming how you actually don't like ranch, but you're not saying that. So, yep. The TikTok essays that become popular.
Josh (10:24)
I think we're noticing a theme here and maybe the source of some of these problems. But, Lisa, something you brought up is a good transition to our next question because it's on the essay topic.
Josh
Mary, could you talk a little bit more about the difference between a parent giving helpful feedback to a student versus rewriting, or convincing them that a TikTok trend about condiments is what they should do? Where is that line?
Mary O'Malley (10:47)
In my opinion, helpful feedback gives the student something to think about. Rewriting gives them something to paste in. To me, that's a useful place to draw the line.
Mary O'Malley
As an editor, and I edit my kiddo's stuff, I could say, “I got lost here,” or, “When you told me this story, you mentioned something interesting that wasn't on this page yet.” You have to let them decide how to revise it.
Mary O'Malley
I can point out a typo. Oxford commas and M-dashes, I'm a huge fan. But unless they decide that that's them, that's all we can do.
Mary O'Malley
Where I tend to get concerned is when adults start replacing students' language, choosing the lesson, or insisting on the story that the parent feels is most impressive. What I would tell parents, and I told one of them this yesterday, is to ask permission before reading. Agree on what kind of feedback is helpful to your student.
Mary O'Malley
And this doesn't need to be shown to every neighbor or dog walker or cousin whose friend got into Harvard 25 years ago. You need to understand what kind of feedback is helpful for your child. It doesn't need a family editorial board.
Lisa (11:58)
I love that. Family editorial board. Or when they come to you and they're like, “Well, my mom's read it, my dad's read it, my sister's read it.” But still, if you would never say that sentence out loud, then it probably doesn't need to be in your essay. Parents hear it, but they don't hear it.
Mary O'Malley (12:16)
One of my old bosses used to say, “Stand in front of a mirror and read it, and note when it doesn't sound like you.” That's probably one of the most brilliant pieces of advice I could steal from her and also give a kid. You can tell the cadence in your own voice and what you say, so read it out loud to yourself.
Josh (12:38)
That performance aspect of the essay, right? If it doesn't sound like you, that's a good cue for you to say, “Maybe I need to go back and make some changes to make it sound like me.”
Josh (12:51)
But the other thing you said, Mary, that I found interesting was the parent asking permission to read, but then also asking what kind of feedback the student wants. I think that can help the conflict between students and parents.
Josh
For example, I'm working with a student right now who doesn't want their parents to read their essay at all, but the parent is very interested in wanting to read the student's essay. A conversation like that could benefit both of them, setting parameters about what kinds of advice or feedback the student wanted while the parent also asks the student for permission.
Mary O'Malley (13:31)
For whatever reason, and I'm seeing this more this year than I have in the past, the personal statement feels more emotionally charged. It feels, in some capacity, that this is the first jumping-off point for adulthood.
Mary O'Malley
My kiddos, and I respect this, are like, “We want to work through this.” I didn't think about the piece about parents asking what type of feedback until this year, but I think it's changed in some regard.
Lisa (13:59)
Great point. I don't think I've even thought about that either. Do you think it's because a lot of the supplementals, and I know we keep hearing supplementals are going away, but we also know there are a lot of schools that still have supplementals, are the hot topic right now?
Lisa
Maybe that's part of it. They hear, “My gosh, that's one less place I get to tell my story,” and maybe that's why. I don't know. I never sat back and thought about that, but I could see that.
Mary O'Malley (14:22)
I also wonder if every year we're getting a different kind of response to COVID. I don't think we're out of this yet. These kiddos were in, what, fifth or sixth grade? In a lot of places, that's transitioning to middle school. Parents were more involved while education was online. These are the kinds of things I keep thinking about.
Josh (14:43)
Yeah, the long tail of COVID. It's true. The pandemic, looking back almost six or seven years, feels like a long time ago. But for a lot of these kids, like you said, there's still that long tail.
Josh
Okay, let's transition to the Common App. Before I ask these questions, did you ever see the movie A Few Good Men?
Mary O'Malley (15:01)
Yeah.
Josh (15:02)
It's a classic movie. When I thought about parents helping students or taking over the Common App, I thought about that end scene in the courtroom where Tom Cruise's character is finally able to get Jack Nicholson's Colonel Jessup to admit that he ordered the Code Red.
Josh
And he gives this impassioned speech about, “You need me on this wall. You want me on this wall.” I feel like that's what parents go through as they're trying to figure out whether they should just take over the Common App for their kid. So, to start, can parents just fill out the Common App for their student? Why or why not?
Mary O'Malley (15:36)
Okay, the fact that you just referenced Aaron Sorkin to me, amazing. Unbelievable. You guys are my favorites.
Lisa (15:42)
Wait, really fast. And by the way, the fact that you also used A Few Good Men, thank goodness it's parents listening to this episode today. I have a feeling that most students are going to be like, “What? Who? What movie are they talking about?”
Josh (15:57)
Hey, you know what? Now they get to add another movie to their Letterboxd queue. Kids, check out A Few Good Men. 1992. Tom Cruise, Demi Moore, Jack Nicholson.
Lisa (16:05)
Sure. Wow. Yes. I'm sorry, Mary. Please go ahead. I just needed to say that.
Mary O'Malley (16:15)
Do you guys keep a list of movies, too? Like stickers and movies?
Josh (16:18)
You know what? Now you have my interest. This is my jam now.
Lisa (16:20)
No, but yes, we are. Thank you, Mary.
Mary O'Malley (16:29)
Can parents just fill out the Common App for their student? No. Let them do it!
Lisa (16:33)
Ha ha ha.
Mary O'Malley (16:34)
Is that radical advice? I'm sorry. There are certain sections where, yeah, they might need help. Where did your parent go to school? What is their official title? When did they graduate? Kids don't know that. I think keeping the student responsible for what the application says is very important.
Mary O'Malley
If parents need to supply or verify information, that's one thing. Sitting together to sort those things out makes sense. But again, it goes back to the theme that this needs to be a student's authentic voice.
Mary O'Malley
The student should be making the choices about how to describe their activities, what to write, and what they want a college to understand. Before submitting, yes, have parents read the PDF, and they should be comfortable with the answers. But it is the kid's application. They're the ones applying to college.
Lisa (17:24)
Well, and I think this goes back to what you said a little earlier, that this is the jumping-off point. If you don't trust them enough, or maybe you do and you don't realize it, if they can't start this process, there are a whole lot of things in college or the next part of their life that you cannot be there for them to do.
Lisa
Like you said, it's a great point to remind parents: This is the jumping-off point, at least, if not a little earlier.
Josh (17:51)
Yeah. I feel like there's a sense of ownership that a student feels when they are the one filling out their application. You can easily disengage yourself and say, “My mom's going to do that. My dad's going to do that,” and have the college process over here while you're doing whatever you're doing.
Josh
But to help kids feel like they're in it, like they're part of this journey, you have to have some skin in the game. You have to be at the dining room table, in your room, or in the family room, depending on your setup, and you have to be the one answering those questions.
Lisa (18:23)
Well, and I think, too, especially with the three of us, because I know the three of us, that's not how our independent college counseling works. We are also not three humans who are going to say, “Yeah, we'll do it for you.”
Lisa
We are not coming up with projects that we are going to do for you. We are all brainstorming together, but you need to take that step. I think that's also important because there are some people out there who don't do that.
Mary O'Malley (18:45)
And I appreciate that so much about both of you. There's room for accessibility support. A student who needs help navigating a form or getting their words entered can still own the content and the decisions.
Mary O'Malley
What I care about, and what I know you both care about, is whose thinking and experiences the application represents. Needing assistance doesn't always take away the student's ownership.
Josh (19:10)
Yeah, that's perfect. And that's actually a great transition to the next question, which I think you've partially answered. Overall, how involved should a parent actually be?
Josh
If they have multiple children going through the process at the same time, does that change from kid to kid? I have three kids of my own. They are not all the same. How should a parent approach that if they have multiple kids going through it at the same time, or if one child went through it two years earlier and now another child is going through it? How do they change their involvement?
Mary O'Malley (19:40)
You can't give every family the same advice or the same prescription, especially kid to kid. Some students can build a calendar and get moving. Others need help breaking a large task into smaller steps, getting started, or keeping track of what comes next. Two kids in the same family may need very different support.
Mary O'Malley
I would ask, “What is the actual obstacle here? What is the speed bump that they feel like they're approaching and about to fly over without being able to put on the brakes?”
Mary O'Malley
If a student is overwhelmed, maybe it's sitting with them while they tackle one section at a time. If they don't understand a question, it's helping them brainstorm or find an answer. If they're avoiding a decision, let's have a conversation about what's making that hard.
Mary O'Malley (20:26)
One of the best pieces of advice I feel like I've ever given out, and again, I borrowed it from a colleague, maybe it was you, Lisa, is to agree on regular check-ins so college doesn't become a topic that ambushes you every time you open the refrigerator.
Mary O'Malley
Once a week, schedule time for college. Then you can adjust the support as you learn what works. Independence is what we're trying to teach them, I believe. I don't have children. I have a dog. She rules my household. But, as I've learned with Ruby, independence can grow with help. It doesn't necessarily have to be the entry requirement.
Lisa (20:59)
Dinner is not admissions committee time, right? I just can't imagine. Josh and I talk about it all the time. Just once a week, talk about something.
Lisa
Think about how many questions your kiddo is getting from strangers on the street. If someone hears that they are of age to apply to college, they get it all the time. Their teachers are asking, their friends' parents are asking, their friends are asking, and you may be asking without even realizing it. So this is just a time not to talk about college.
Mary O'Malley (21:29)
Have you ever been to a concert or a sporting event where the babies or toddlers have those really cute headphones on? Get a pair of those. From freshman year on, especially when it comes to junior year, everyone is going to have an opinion. Do they deserve an opinion? Do they deserve to question you? No. But you have to have some sort of ability to turn it off.
Josh (21:56)
Yeah. Mary, one other thing that makes you a cool person is that I also have a dog named Ruby.
Mary O'Malley (22:02)
I love that. We'll have to send photos.
Josh (22:04)
That's right. Lisa, do you have a Ruby?
Lisa (22:07)
We do not. I mean, we have five, but we have...
Josh (22:09)
Yeah, you have 9,000 dogs, but not a single one is named Ruby.
Lisa (22:12)
Listen, we are on our 95th foster dog, but we've never had a Ruby in all 95.
Josh (22:18)
Not all dog owners can be perfect, so it's okay, Lisa.
Mary O'Malley (22:18)
You need one.
Lisa (22:23)
Okay. Gotcha.
Josh (22:24)
There's a sticker for you. Kidding, kidding. Okay, all right.
Lisa (22:26)
No, there's a sticker for you.
Josh (22:31)
Mary, transitioning back to non-Ruby talk, what do you feel separates the parents who get it right from the ones who might struggle? How do some parents strike that balance between being helpful without being overbearing or taking over?
Mary O'Malley (22:50)
That's a great question. Again, not as a parent, but having witnessed this a lot of times, I feel like a moment I'd point to is when a parent makes room for the student's reaction before offering their own.
Mary O'Malley
If you come out of a college visit, the parent could very well have loved it. But if they notice that the student is quiet, instead of launching into, “My God, this was so amazing and everything's perfect,” the parent should ask, “What did you think?” And then listen, even if that answer is disappointing.
Mary O'Malley
While that's small, it gives the student space to have an honest opinion. Then you can ask useful follow-up questions. What was comfortable? What wasn't? Was it the campus itself? Was it part of the visit? Was it your tour guide? It's always the tour guide.
Lisa (23:40)
It's always the tour guide.
Mary O'Malley (23:42)
As a former tour guide, I take offense to that. But I guess that's the kind of support I really want to encourage. The parent is engaged in helping the student think while leaving space for an opinion or answer they might not have chosen for their child.
Josh (23:59)
That's really important. That's awesome.
Lisa (24:01)
But it is always the tour guide. Or it was raining on campus. “It was raining, and I didn't like it.”
Mary O'Malley (24:04)
It's always the tour guide. It was raining, yes.
Lisa (24:09)
My favorite is, “It was raining, but I liked it.” I'm like, “Hot dog, we're putting that on your list.” If you like it in the rain, let's do it.
Mary O'Malley (24:16)
If you go to Dartmouth and it snows in February, I could have told you that. That can't be why you don't like it.
Josh (24:17)
That means they had a phenomenal tour.
Lisa (24:23)
Correct. Correct.
Josh (24:24)
So another question for you: What do you wish every parent knew before their kids started applying to college?
Lisa (24:31)
This is a good one, Josh.
Mary O'Malley (24:32)
It really is. I might take it in a little bit of a different direction. Your child does not need to know how this all turns out in April of junior year.
Mary O'Malley
They need to know that they can come to you while they're figuring it out. And I firmly believe they are figuring it out. We are asking 16- and 17-year-olds to decide what they want to do with the rest of their lives. Really? They are teenagers.
Mary O'Malley
I believe you can care very deeply, as you should, but still take a deep breath. You can be disappointed by a decision and give yourself time to process your reaction before asking your child to carry that reaction, too.
Mary O'Malley
A college decision does not capture everything you know and love about someone. It's a split-second thing. Because of institutional priorities, you don't know what they are. It is not a verdict on someone's worth. That's a hill I will die on.
Lisa (25:28)
Right. It's true, and they're unpredictable. You could be admissible, but that does not mean there was evidence that something went wrong. There are too many people applying for too few spots, and I think sometimes students and parents lose that.
Mary O'Malley (25:45)
I think students and parents also lose sight of the fact that colleges right now are businesses. They will educate you once you pay a very expensive tuition. But right now, they are acting as any business does, in their own best interest.
Mary O'Malley
The admissions office is given goals by a couple of levels above. That's how they're making decisions. It's not a verdict on someone's worth. I wish more parents recognized that.
Josh (26:12)
Such an important point.
Lisa (26:14)
And I think once you get the decision, you start comparing. “So-and-so got in. I didn't get in.” And I'm always like, listen, do not let that comparison steal the entire year from your family. Do not wish, “I would have, should have, could have.” That's gone.
Lisa
Don't let comparison steal that from your family. It's hard. I'm not saying it's not hard. We are letting you know it is absolutely hard to do, but if you can keep from it, it would be best for everyone.
Josh (26:44)
Yeah, I agree. Mary, as we put a bow on this, think back over the students and families you've worked with. What's a moment you've seen where a parent did get this right? A practical example. Lisa is always a show, not tell kind of person. What's a moment when you saw a parent who really hit the core?
Mary O'Malley (27:02)
For me, it's those moments when parents are really willing to listen and try to understand where their kid is coming from.
Mary O'Malley
I live in Chicago. Everyone and their mother loves Notre Dame. I have relatives who went to Notre Dame. It's a great place. But if you don't like Notre Dame, it's fine. You just don't like Notre Dame. It's not a judgment on you. Your kid just wants something else.
Mary O'Malley
The parents who are able to listen to that and understand that their child is making decisions for themselves are amazing. It's phenomenal.
Mary O'Malley
When we go back and start to talk about how you begin this process, I believe very much that you have to reflect on who you are and what your parents' and family members' priorities are, because parents are the ones paying for this. It's a private family matter. This is not something that you should be out there discussing.
Mary O'Malley
The parents who have gotten it right, in my opinion, are the ones who let kids lead the process, regardless of where that is taking them.
Josh (28:07)
Wow. I know for some parents it might be a little hard, but I think that's good advice to hear. And maybe for parents who have younger kids, you can start practicing that now to get yourself ready for it.
Mary O'Malley (28:20)
There's an Instagram person I follow. I'm a millennial by 18 days. She's really wonderful. Her name is Anne Marie Scheidler, and she lives in Lake Forest, Illinois. She posted on Substack that four or five of her kids went to Notre Dame. I'm not picking on Notre Dame. I cheered for them last night.
Mary O'Malley
But then the fifth or sixth one went to Indiana. He's been at IU for, I don't know, two weeks now, and she's trying to adjust to the littlest one being gone. People keep asking her, “What's it like being an empty nester?” And she wrote, “I've prepared for this. I'm ready for him to fly, and I'm ready to cheer him on.”
Mary O'Malley
I can only imagine the pressure with so many family members going to a certain school. But in my opinion, that's the goal. You get to cheer them on as they make these decisions. That's pretty cool.
Josh (29:15)
Well, Mary, this has been so good. Thank you again. We've got one more segment that we'd like to pull you into. It's a Drop In staple here on our podcast.
Josh (29:25)
It's called Hot Take or Hard Truth.
Lisa (29:27)
Mm-hmm.
Josh (29:29)
Today we obviously have a bonus because you're going to be here. To get us started, Lisa is going to kick us off. But your turn is going to come around, so, Mary, get ready.
Mary O'Malley (29:42)
I'm ready.
Lisa (29:43)
This is a lot of pressure to start, y'all. All right, parents. Lock in. One of the most loving things you can do in this process is let your kiddo do some of it imperfectly. It's okay.
Lisa
I know that is hard. You can see the sentence that you would change. You know the deadline is coming. You know you could probably get it done faster. And sometimes you're sitting there thinking, “Just give it to me. I will fix it. I can fix it in a minute.”
Lisa
But remember, y'all, this is their application. A slightly imperfect application that sounds like your kiddo, that they can actually own, is going to be more valuable than any perfect, polished application that you basically built for them.
Lisa
Because here's the thing. Next August, they're the ones going to college, not you. They're the ones who are going to sit in that professor's class and ask the questions. They're going to meet those deadlines. They're going to have to make decisions and solve problems. Occasionally, they are going to mess up. But you know what? They are going to figure it out.
Lisa (30:54)
Take it from three people who work with your students every day. They're going to figure it out. And they're going to be even more amazing because of it.
Lisa
So let them start practicing that now, because the kiddo who learns to own this process is going to learn so much more about advocating for themselves, solving their problems, and managing what comes next in life.
Josh (31:17)
That's a great one, Lisa. Mine is a little bit more blunt. Parents...
Lisa (31:19)
Thank you. Usually I'm the blunt one. Okay, I like this. Let's do it.
Josh (31:25)
Yeah, I'm taking the role, Lisa. So mine is a little bit more blunt. Parents, please keep your hands off the essay keyboard. Don't be Colonel Jessup. We don't need you on that wall.
Josh
And I'm saying this as a former admissions person. I've had that experience. When you start fixing every sentence, changing words, making it sound more sophisticated, more polished, and more like what you think a college essay should sound like, you can very quickly edit your own kid right out of their essay.
Josh
Admissions officers are not looking for a 47-year-old's perfectly crafted essay written under an 18-year-old's name. They want the student.
Josh
So absolutely ask questions. Tell them when something is confusing. Help them think through whether the story is actually answering the prompt. But then give the keyboard back. Their voice, your student's voice, is the whole point of the essay.
Lisa (32:21)
Ooh, Josh, look at you. We are spit-firing today. Okay, Mary, your turn to bring us home. What is your hot take?
Mary O'Malley (32:29)
A little bit of a story behind this. My Ruby, I think, is wonderful and delightful, and she only ever listens with her listening ears.
Mary O'Malley
But I took her to the groomer a while back, and they flipped the computer around because they wanted me to see the notes the groomer had written. They said she was the best good girl ever. And I was like, “She was the best good girl ever.”
Mary O'Malley
Then I kind of stepped outside myself, and I was like, “This is not a parenting report card. This is how she acted at the groomer.”
Mary O'Malley
So I think that a college acceptance letter is not a parenting report card, just as the note from the dog groomer isn't one. You don't get extra credit because the college is famous or because you can put on a sweatshirt that people notice while you're walking down the street. Or a bumper sticker, right?
Mary O'Malley
You haven't failed because the answer was no. I'd rather you ask: Can your kid tell us what they want? Can they ask for help? Do they know that you're proud of them before the decision arrives? Those are the things that are worth paying attention to. It is not a parenting report card.
Josh (33:37)
Nice.
Lisa (33:38)
Girl, you have come out with like six stickers or taglines in this episode alone.
Mary O'Malley (33:44)
I will buy them all.
Lisa (33:45)
Maybe we should just have Mary come on every episode to give a little hot take. I love this for us, too.
Josh (33:51)
Hey, you know what, Mary? You're always welcome. And next time, bring Ruby. I'll bring my Ruby into the room.
Lisa (33:54)
Yay! Love that.
Mary O'Malley (33:56)
Meeting of the Rubys. I love that.
Lisa (33:58)
I love all of this. I love this journey that we're all on. Yay!
Mary O'Malley (34:02)
Thank you guys so much for having me. This has literally been the best part of my week.
Lisa (34:05)
Gosh, you're so welcome.
Lisa (34:08)
Okay, so to wrap up our episode, you know what we love to do. We love to drop the mic. It is that time again. Josh, take us home.
Josh (34:18)
Okay, Lisa. Here's my final thought, and it's really for the parents. This process is going to be over before you know it. The deadlines, the essays, the late-night stress, all of it.
Josh
What your kid is going to remember is not whether every sentence was perfect. They're going to remember whether they felt believed in and whether you were the calm in the room or the pressure in the room.
Josh
So be the calm. Be the person who says, “I trust you. You've got this.” And then you should mean it. Because when they walk onto that campus knowing their parents believe they can handle hard things, that confidence carries them further than any edit you could have made to their college essay.
Lisa (34:56)
Ugh, be the calm. I think it's just so true. That's even great advice, y'all, to take into our own lives. Just be the calm.
Lisa
Man, that's going to be really hard to follow. Josh? Dang it. Okay. Here is what I want every parent to carry out of this episode. You absolutely have a role in this process. It's a big one. But your job is not to drive the whole thing. Your job is to be the guardrail.
Lisa
Keep track of the deadlines. Ask the questions that your kiddo might not know to ask. But here we go again. I'm going to steal this from Josh: Be the calm. Be the calm place they can come back to when the process gets stressful.
Lisa
And then, as hard as it is, let them own it. Let them write their own essay in their own voice. Let them make choices that you might have made differently, and let them make a mistake here and there. Their application needs to belong to them.
Lisa
In the end, remember to love your kiddo more than you love the outcome. That's the most important piece. Because the goal was never to create the most perfect application possible.
Lisa
The goal is to help your kiddo become the kind of young adult who can walk onto any campus in the fall and start figuring things out without you sitting next to them. If they can do that, that's a win, y'all. That's the whole thing.
Josh (36:26)
That was pretty good, Lisa.
Lisa (36:29)
Thank you.
Josh (36:29)
Well, Mary O'Malley, thank you so much for being our very first guest on Drop In. We're going to have a little plaque or something that we're going to send you. This was everything that we hoped it would be.
Lisa (36:42)
And more. Mary O'Malley, you're the best. See? The GOAT. She's the GOAT.
Mary O'Malley (36:48)
Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it.
Josh (36:50)
All right, so next week on Drop In, we're tackling something that almost every student deals with at some point, and a lot of families have no idea what to do with: test anxiety.
Lisa (36:59)
My gosh, I'm already getting hives up my neck, y'all. Everyone knows this feeling. The timer starts, your heart's racing, your brain suddenly decides it's forgotten everything that you've studied, and now you're staring at question one and thinking, “This is not going to go great.”
Josh (37:15)
Yep, exactly. We're going to get really practical in terms of which test actually fits your student better, what kind of test prep makes sense, when you should start, and what you can do before test day so you're not trying to solve all of this while the clock is running.
Lisa (37:29)
Right. And we are getting very specific. Practice with the same calculator you're going to use on test day specific. Because those little things, y'all, matter more than you think.
Josh (37:40)
Yeah, they really do. And we've got another special guest joining us, a test-prep expert who works with kiddos on this every single day. So this is not going to be just, “Relax. Take a deep breath,” although those things are important. Because if that worked, nobody would have test anxiety.
Lisa (37:54)
Look at this trend you started, Mary O'Malley. Y'all, this is going to be good. We are going to make sure we give you actual strategies that you can use.
Lisa
So if you have a kiddo in your house who is already starting to stress when someone says SAT, ACT, or CLT, send them our way and be sure to listen.
Josh (38:14)
Yep. So that's next week on Drop In.
Lisa (38:15)
Y'all, we're Decision Drop, making your college journey collaborative, simple, and most importantly, yours.
Lisa
And if you want a steady, experienced guide in your corner so you can sit back and let Josh and me help with the essays, timelines, and strategies, we've got you. Head over to decisiondrop.com and check us out.
Lisa
And do not forget to subscribe to Mary's Admitted-ish Substack. I promise you, it will make your entire life.
Josh (38:45)
Hard agreed. Thanks for dropping in. We'll see y'all next week.
Lisa (38:48)
Bye.
