Episode 14: SAT vs. ACT, Test Anxiety, and Test Prep That Works
Episode Description:
In Episode 14 of Drop In, Lisa and Josh welcome Megan Dorsey of College Prep Results to tackle the SAT, ACT, test anxiety, and the testing questions families ask all the time.
SAT or ACT? When should a student test? How many times should they take it? Does test prep actually work? And what can students do when test-day nerves take over?
Megan has spent three decades helping students improve their SAT and ACT scores. She joins Lisa and Josh for a practical conversation about preparing intentionally without allowing testing to take over a student’s life.
They begin with test anxiety. Megan explains why feeling nervous when something matters is completely normal and why the goal is not to feel perfectly calm. The goal is to remain focused enough to use the skills and strategies the student has practiced. They also discuss when diagnosed anxiety may require families to work with a school counselor and request appropriate testing accommodations.
Then they tackle one of the biggest questions families ask: SAT or ACT?
After years of frequently steering students toward the ACT, Megan now prefers the digital SAT for most students. She explains how its shorter testing experience, shorter reading passages, built-in Desmos calculator, and digital format compare with the current ACT. Her recommendation is not universal, however. Students should still compare their performance and experience on official, timed practice tests.
Megan also shares one testing mistake she wants families to stop making: paying to take a real SAT or ACT simply to establish a baseline score. Instead, students should take a full-length official practice test under realistic conditions. Put away the phone, follow the correct timing, use the calculator you plan to use on test day, and complete the entire exam.
That practice result can help families decide which test to pursue, what kind of preparation may help, and whether testing belongs in the student’s overall admissions strategy.
The conversation also covers when students should begin testing, why junior year usually makes the most sense, how sports and activities should influence the testing calendar, and when taking the exam again stops being productive. Families currently navigating that stage can also explore Decision Drop’s college planning services for high school juniors.
Megan explains the difference between academic skill building and actual test preparation, when students can prepare independently, when tutoring may help, and how much improvement may be realistic. Most importantly, she reminds families that an SAT or ACT score is not a measure of a student’s intelligence.
These are specific tests with specific formats, pacing, strategies, and rules. Those are skills, and skills can be learned.
For more practical strategies, read this episode’s companion article, Test Anxiety and Testing Strategy: What Actually Works. Families deciding whether scores should be submitted can also revisit Episode 6 about test-optional, test-blind, and test-required admissions.
Megan works with students through College Prep Results, where she specializes in SAT, ACT, and PSAT preparation. She offers in-person tutoring and classes in Sugar Land, Fort Bend, Missouri City, Katy, Bellaire, Memorial, and other West Houston communities, along with virtual tutoring for students nationwide.
Need help deciding how SAT, ACT, or CLT scores should fit into your student’s larger admissions strategy? Contact Lisa and Josh at Decision Drop to learn more about personalized college planning and application support.
In this episode
What test anxiety feels like and why nervousness is normal
How students can practice staying focused under pressure
What parents can do to reduce testing pressure
When testing accommodations may be appropriate
Whether students should take the SAT or ACT
How the digital SAT compares with the current ACT
Why students should not use a real exam as a baseline
When students should take their first SAT or ACT
How many times students should retake an exam
When another test attempt may be worthwhile for scholarships
The difference between test preparation and academic skill building
How much score improvement may be realistic
When choosing not to test may be the right decision
Why a test score is not a measure of intelligence.
🎙️ Also available on: Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music | iHeart
Top Questions Answered in this Episode
Can test anxiety be reduced before the SAT or ACT?
Yes. Students can reduce the effect of test anxiety by becoming familiar with the exam, practicing under realistic timed conditions, and learning how to redirect their attention to the question in front of them. The goal is not necessarily to eliminate every nervous feeling. It is to remain focused enough to use the strategies and knowledge the student has practiced.
Students with diagnosed anxiety or another documented condition should speak with their school counselor or accommodations coordinator well before the exam. School accommodations do not automatically transfer to the SAT or ACT, so families may also need to complete the appropriate approval process with the testing organization.
Should students take the SAT or ACT?
Colleges accept both the SAT and ACT without preferring one over the other. Students should therefore choose the exam that better fits their strengths, pacing, and testing experience.
In this episode, Megan Dorsey explains why she currently recommends the digital SAT for most students. Its shorter duration, shorter reading passages, built-in Desmos calculator, and digital design may make it more manageable. Some students may still perform better on the ACT, so the best decision should be based on official, timed practice results rather than reputation or guesswork.
Should students take a real SAT or ACT to establish a baseline score?
No. Students should use an official practice test to establish a baseline instead of paying to take an actual SAT or ACT without preparation.
The practice test should be completed under realistic conditions. Follow the official timing, put away the phone, take the entire exam, use the correct calculator, and include only the breaks permitted on test day. The resulting score can help identify timing problems, weaker sections, test anxiety, and whether the SAT or ACT is the better fit.
When should students take their first SAT or ACT?
Most students should take their first official SAT or ACT during junior year. The exact timing should reflect the student’s math preparation, school workload, activities, motivation, and application plans.
A student taking Algebra II during junior year may benefit from testing later in the year. Athletes, performers, and students with demanding seasonal activities should choose a testing window that allows enough time for focused preparation. The objective is to build a manageable testing plan, not simply choose the earliest possible date.
How many times should a student take the SAT or ACT?
Many students take the SAT or ACT two or three times. A second attempt can be useful because students understand the testing experience and may feel less anxious. A third attempt may also make sense when practice results show that further improvement is realistic.
Before taking an exam a fourth time, families should identify what will be different. Another attempt may be worthwhile if the student has changed their preparation, needs a small increase for a scholarship, or has consistently scored higher on practice tests. Repeating the same process without a new strategy often produces similar results.
What kind of SAT or ACT preparation works best?
Effective test preparation focuses on the format, pacing, recurring question types, calculator tools, and strategies specific to the chosen exam. This is different from long-term academic skill building.
Some students can prepare independently using official practice materials. Others benefit from a class, tutor, structured schedule, accountability, or individualized feedback. Families seeking professional help should look for someone who specializes in the SAT or ACT and regularly works with the current version of the test.
How much can SAT or ACT scores improve with test preparation?
Improvement depends on the student’s starting point, academic foundation, preparation quality, effort, testing anxiety, and the reasons questions were missed. Megan says that an SAT increase of about 200 total points can be a reasonable expectation for students completing a strong preparation program, although individual results vary substantially.
Preparation can improve performance, but it cannot guarantee a particular score. Families should establish realistic goals based on official practice results and the student’s individual college and scholarship plans.
Does every college-bound student need to take the SAT or ACT?
No. Some students may decide that testing is not the best use of their time or energy, particularly when their prospective colleges are test-optional and their scores are unlikely to strengthen their applications.
Testing policies continue to change, and some colleges and scholarships require scores. Students should research every institution and scholarship on their list before deciding not to test. The right decision depends on the student’s goals, academic profile, practice scores, wellbeing, and available test-optional choices.
Chapters
00:00 – SAT, ACT & Test Anxiety: What Families Need to Know
04:53 – Test Anxiety: Why Your Brain Freezes & How to Handle It
09:24 – Practice, Pressure & What Parents Can Do to Help
17:54 – Is Test-Optional Going Away? The Return of Required Testing
22:47 – SAT vs. ACT: Which Test Is Better Right Now?
30:01 – Practice Baselines, When to Test & How Many Times to Retake
36:33 – What Test Prep Actually Works & How Much Scores Can Improve
42:22 – Hot Take or Hard Truth: A Test Score Is NOT Intelligence
46:15 – Drop the Mic: Testing Is Only One Piece of the Process
51:18 – Next Week: FAFSA, CSS Profile & Financial Aid
Read the Full Episode Transcript
Josh (00:21): Every week we drop the noise.
Lisa (00:23): Drop the stress.
Josh (00:24): And drop some knowledge.
Lisa (00:25): Welcome to the Drop In, the College Admissions podcast by Decision Drop. If you want to learn more about our services or have Josh and I guide your family through this process personally, head over to decisiondrop.com and check us out. and please like and subscribe.
Josh (00:40): I'm Josh.
Lisa (00:41): I'm Lisa, let's go!
Josh (00:43): Lisa, you gotta stop getting too close to the screen. I I it's
Lisa (00:45): No, I no, I am owning this. This is happening now. I mean we are episode what is this fourteen? We are in it to win it. Yeah. Yeah.
Josh (00:51): This is episode 14. Yeah, we are we are on episode 14. And for this episode, we have another guest.
Lisa (00:59): Two weeks in the row, y'all. look at us. We are basically a real podcast now, Josh. I feel so excited, which is another reason that I'm gonna now stick with the let's go. that's gonna happen. So lock in.
Josh (01:09): Exactly. A throwback to my favorite sitcom growing up, like the Jeffersons, man, we're moving on up. So
Lisa (01:16): I do love the Jeffersons, but I also love that now we're getting further back. last week was your Few Good Men from 1992 and now we're the Jeffersons. I I love this retro vibes that we have we have now. It's awesome. Sure. Sure. Sure.
Josh (01:27): Hey, everything old is new again. So again, for those kids out there, look up the Jeffersons. You can YouTube, I'm sure it's streaming somewhere. Anyway, moving past the Jeffersons. So this week we have a yet another important topic because it's one that causes a considerable amount of stress for students and parents during this application process. Test anxiety.
Lisa (01:48): Ugh, test anxiety. You know the feeling, y'all. The timer starts, your heart's racing, your brain suddenly decides it's forgotten everything that you studied. And now you're staring at question one going, my God, this is gonna go great.
Josh (02:01): And way back in episode six, we did say that we would eventually go a little bit deeper on testing. And back in episode six, that was really about big picture policy stuff test optional, test blind, whether or not a student should even send their scores. This week is gonna be a little different because this week it's gonna be practical in the trenches. How do I actually do this well type of conversation?
Lisa (02:22): Ooh, in the trenches. I love this for us. so think about it this way, y'all. So it's what test fits your student, when to take it, how do you prep? How many times should I take it? And what to do when test day nerves really start getting in the way. And for this, we are very excited because we have brought in someone who genuinely does this every single day.
Josh (02:45): Exactly. And I'm so excited to introduce our guest. We are thrilled to welcome Megan Dorsey to Drop In. Megan has spent the last three decades helping students to improve their SAT and ACT scores. She teaches in-person classes in Sugarland, Texas, and also works with private tutoring clients in person and on Zoom.
Lisa (03:05): And Megan just wrapped up 12 years of co-hosting the College Prep Podcast. So she is very comfortable doing this. She is definitely the expert where Josh and I are not. Her whole business now is fully focusing on helping students with college admissions exams. And here's my favorite detail about her bio. Megan will not tell you what she scored on the SAT, but. But she will tell you that she graduated from Rice University, in Houston, Texas. So kiddos, I think we could probably connect the dots.
Josh (03:38): Yes, welcome Megan.
Lisa (03:39): Yes, welcome, Megan.
Megan Dorsey (03:40): Well thank you. Thank you. We can do a little process of elimination to figure out my score.
Lisa (03:44): We can, I love that.
Josh (03:46): Megan, we're excited to have you here. Lisa and I, as she mentioned, we can talk about testing from the admission side and from the strategy side, but you're the person who's actually sitting with students every day. So you see what helps, what gets in their heads, what causes them to freeze up, and what actually helps them to improve. you can give families something that we really can't in terms of what works really well with the test itself. and also what are the things that are making students nervous?
Lisa (04:10): So before we get into any of this, here is what all three of us want every stressed out kiddo and every worried parent to hear about this episode, especially. Test anxiety is so common, y'all. And more importantly, it does not mean you are bad at testing or bad at school or somehow just an anxious person who is stuck this way forever. There are things you can learn, there are strategies you can practice. You can get more comfortable with the test, more confident in what you're doing, and much better at handling that moment when the timer starts and your brain wants to panic.
Josh (04:47): Yeah, which is exactly why we invited Megan to join us today.
Lisa (04:50): All right. So let's get into it. Let's go, y'all.
Josh (04:53): Alrighty, so Megan, we're gonna jump right in. as we mentioned at the top, you've been doing this for 30 years, you've worked with thousands of students, and I'm guessing, you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you've seen just about every version of test anxiety there is. So I wanna start there because that is the piece families worry about the most. Then we'll get into some of the strategy questions Lisa and I hear all the time: SAT versus ACT, when to start, what kind of prep actually works, all of it. But first, we're gonna start with the kiddo who knows the material. sits down on test day and suddenly their brain just stops cooperating. So here's my first question to you. test anxiety is so common. When a student freezes up on a test day, what's actually going on? And is it fixable?
Megan Dorsey (05:33): It's definitely fixable. And I'll go back to what you started us off with, Lisa, is it's so common. And I think the first thing that I tell my students is it's almost like test anxiety is a myth. And it's a myth built on this idea that there's somebody who's showing up at the SAT or a new job interview or the first day of an important day of school, college, whatever, completely happy and not nervous. So we make it sound like, I'm the one who's at fault. I'm the one who's broken. No, you should be a little nervous when you do something that matters to you, that's new. And so I think sometimes we just have to give ourselves permission to say, it makes sense that my brain is on high alert because my brain wants me to know that this is important. And then you almost have to treat your brain like your little cousin that you're babysitting. And you're like, thank you, brain, for giving me that nervous alert. And and I always tell people, you can absolutely be nervous. You just can't let your nerves drive. Just like if you're a babysitt, your little cousin, you wouldn't let your little cousin drive the car. You have to be the one in charge. Hopefully.
Lisa (06:41): Right. Right. I mean yeah. I mean listen, fingers crossed.
Josh (06:43): We hope not.
Lisa (06:48): But I I think that's important, Megan, I'm already starting that with like my hot take. just giving all of us permission for everything. I think we're too hard on ourselves all the time. So thank you for also talking about this first, because I have anxiety and I think just hearing about just giving ourselves permission to just live, right? And just just be. So thank you. Woof.
Megan Dorsey (07:06): I co-host a podcast for 12 years. I've done podcasting. I log in today to talk with y'all, and I'm like, I'm a little bit nervous. I hope I don't mess up. And so I just think we we create this myth of the happy test taker that's just not really realistic. The other thing is coming from a background of counseling, I will say there is a difference between a nervous test taker and And someone who's like legitimately diagnosed with an anxiety situation. And for kids who do have diagnosed anxiety, absolutely get with the school counselor, get that kid accommodations. I have two children, both really pretty good test takers, incredibly smart kids. Both ended up with accommodations in school and then accommodations on the SAT and ACT Not because they necessarily needed extra time to work problems, but they needed the ability to go leave the room and go get a drink of water, splash some water on their face, calm their brain down if their anxiety reared its ugly head during the exam in a way that kept them from productively thinking. So definitely if anyone's got kids in that scenario, I know sometimes heading into high school. Our school counselors want them to start functioning with fewer accommodations, but this may be one we wanna keep in place just as a safety net for testing.
Josh (08:35): Yeah. that's such an important distinction, Megan, you know, between students who might just have a case of the nerves, right? Because as you mentioned, I mean, this is an important test. Students do put a lot of pressure on themselves versus students who have some diagnosed learning differences or conditions where, they would need the more specific accommodations to help them to be in a position to do their best. And so, parents and students who might be listening to this, as Megan talked about. getting with your school counselor, your school might have an accommodations coordinator, someone whose job it is to sort of help students and parents to go through their process, because there may be an internal process that students have to go through to get accommodations specific to their school. And then there's the external process that they have to apply to the College Board for accommodations on the SAT and then to ACT itself for accommodations on that test. So that's very important to make those distinctions.
Megan Dorsey (09:24): But for everybody whose test day nerves range from I'm a little bit nervous, but I usually am okay once I get started, to I don't have diagnosed anxiety, but I feel like I'm about ready to have a panic attack on the SAT. Here are my suggestions. So first we've already given ourselves permission to say it's okay to be nervous. And I would say you need to start the worse you are on your nerves, the earlier you need to start practicing. And you need to practice talking to your brain like it's the five-year-old who's sitting with you. Thanks, brain, for letting me know that you're nervous. I can't talk to you about my SAT score right now. I have to work the questions that are right in front of me. Because your brain's over here like this, chittering squirrel saying, my gosh, what you need to get in order to get into this school? And that only ramps up your nerves. So that ability to say, okay, for the next couple hours. I've got to focus with what I've got right in front of me. Gotta focus on the test questions. And then start practicing with doing timed actual exams. So that means for the SAT, you're using the Blue Book app from College Board. You're setting the timing according to the time you will be using on test day. If you have accommodations, put that in. If you don't, don't. ACT, whether you're doing paper and pencil or digital. mirror what you're gonna do. And in an ideal world, sit down and take it just like you would. From start to finish, breaks included, so your brain starts getting used to it. well, I just can't be that excited about this. It's just another one of those tests you've had me do. Another hint I give for some students, you're working these practice tests, you might start doing it at home, but sometimes we're really comfortable at home. I mean my bedroom at my desk from at the table in the kitchen. Sometimes it helps to give your brain something a little less comfortable. Go reserve a study room at the library and sit there to take your practice test because now your brain is like, hold on, you put me in a new environment. You're giving it a little bit more challenge to get used to feeling okay. And you don't have to feel good. You only have to be able to focus.
Lisa (11:37): Mm-hmm. Ugh. I love that. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Josh (11:38): Hmm. Those those are good. Wow. I like that. that line, you don't have to feel good. You just have to be able to focus. That's awesome.
Megan Dorsey (11:47): I do tell my students, you can picture me writing on my whiteboard that I have here. I've got sort of a number line where I start with the smiley face. And I'm like, okay, if I were to go take the SAT today, this would be me. But this isn't really realistic because I don't need to get in college and I've been teaching this forever. So I don't expect anybody to be on the smiley face side of it. In the middle is just the not smiling face. straight line for the mouth. On the other end is the it looks like the hairs on fire picture from the scream, sort of We can't be over there. We can't be at that level of panic that you're no longer processing. The goal is simply to be okay. It's not ever to try to make it to happy. And so that's all you have to think of. Can I read the questions and then enact? My strategies, the things I've practiced. I don't have to be happy doing it. I can complain all I want during it. This is stupid. I wish I didn't have to do it, as long as you're focusing on the material.
Lisa (12:47): Great. Woo!
Josh (12:48): so Megan, to piggyback onto that, as you're working with students, what are some of the more common mistakes you see students make that sort of quietly make their anxiety a little bit worse?
Megan Dorsey (12:57): I think sometimes students set unrealistic expectations for themselves. I made last year on my PSAT a 950. I want a 1450 on the SAT. Now, that doesn't mean I haven't sometimes seen students who can make that level of improvement, but that's like trying to take the stairs 10 at a time. Let's try to make incremental improvements. And it could be that. You've definitely added to your math knowledge. You've had your learning difference diagnosed and now you're really working on things. But I think sometimes we really put extra stress on ourselves when we're trying to achieve something that's just not realistic. And sometimes that comes from kids themselves. Sometimes it does come from parents.
Lisa (13:45): that goes really hand in hand what we talked about last week. and Megan, I know you listen to our podcast, so thank you so much for doing that. And we just remind parents all the time, it's just about that disappointment piece, right? On how their kids can handle disappointment. What they can't handle is disappointing their own parents. And I think sometimes parents think they're doing the right thing or just by saying some of the things they say and they don't realize all the pressure that they're putting on their children, how many times they bring it up or how many times they talk about on a Saturday morning sometimes they just don't realize how many times their kids are question over and over again. So three thousand percent I think parents could absolutely add to that pressure.
Megan Dorsey (14:21): And it's the comparison. I'm comparing myself to my siblings. I can't tell you many kids I've tutored in the last year who their only goal was to beat the older sibling in scoring. Comparison to their friends, comparison to just everything around them. And it's a lot of pressure to be constantly under that type of comparison.
Josh (14:41): real quick to continue on this parent angle here. So in your position as someone who's been working with students, obviously you've had interactions with their parents as well. is there maybe a tip or two that you can pass along to parents who might be listening? What can they do from their role? Obviously they're not taking the test, you know, they shouldn't be taking the test for their kid. And we should put that out there right now. But just in case
Megan Dorsey (14:59): I think you're gonna have hard time trying.
Josh (15:02): Exactly, but what how what can they do from the parental role? if they know or sense that their student is anxious about this test. any tips on what they can do to kind of maybe help their student?
Megan Dorsey (15:13): I think that first having a better perspective of the pressure that kids are under. I have a lot of parents say, well, shouldn't they have just learned this in school? I challenge any parent who wants to do that. Blue Book is open for you to create an account. You can go ahead and take an SAT on Blue Book. Go ahead and see how well you score. Make it timed too. You can't give yourself extra time. Take an ACT, print it out paper and pencil or do it digital. And then you start realizing, I considered myself to be good in reading or math or grammar, whatever it is. I'm not sure why I missed these questions. You start understanding it's a little harder than you thought. I think also some of the time parents are just trying to make sure kids are doing their best, putting in some effort. And as the parent of two kids with anxiety, we actually had to stop using the phrase do your best at my house because that meant some over-the-top, you know, make yourself sick with worry because is it really my best? And we start using the phrase, do an honest job. Put in some time studying for whichever test you're gonna take, the SAT or the ACT. When you're working the questions. Put your attention on that. Don't have all your other devices on. Focus. And if you're putting some honest effort into it, I think that's reasonable as a parent to ask. And then beyond that, we just have to understand that some people are gifted in the thinking of test taking. That's why I do the job I do. I was always a pretty good test taker. And some people struggle. And I think about it like I could get a voice coach, but I come from a long line of Tone-deaf, terrible singers. Like my mom's family lip syncs in church. It's so bad. A voice coach could help me, but I'm never gonna make it on the voice or American Idol. So understand where you're at and say we're gonna improve from where you're at, but we're not gonna try to expect, you to test take at an Olympic level if that's really not your gift.
Lisa (17:19): I'm adding that to our sticker spreadsheet. The honest job that's happening. See, that's two, Josh. Look at that. Mary and now Megan.
Megan Dorsey (17:22): Yay, I get a sticker.
Josh (17:24): Well, you So so w we we've been having an ongoing battle about this, but I will say, Megan, that was a bar. Do an honest job. So you
Lisa (17:32): Uh-huh. Yeah.
Josh (17:34): know what, Lisa? I'm in favor of that sticker. I'm gonna steal this, borrow it. to use it on my own kids as well. So they're gonna start hearing that a lot more from me. So
Lisa (17:43): Like, Phil, do an honest job. that's happening. So yeah.
Josh (17:45): man. Well let's see how that works out. Report back to us. Okay. Well
Lisa (17:48): Sure. Yeah, I'll next week. No. Oh.. Okay, good. I love this. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Megan Dorsey (17:49): My kids both need a set of stickers now. They will laugh.
Josh (17:54): thank you for that, Megan. we're gonna switch gears a little bit and kind of go a little into the realm of which test and where testing is heading actually. We'll start there. you've had a great view of where the testing sort of mechanism apparatus, whatever you want to call it, is going. how many schools do you think will move away from the test optional policies that really have dominated since COVID and moving back to tests required in within the next year or two? Is the pendulum swinging back toward required testing?
Megan Dorsey (18:23): It absolutely is. I think especially the large state universities, those that are inundated with thousands of applications a year, they need testing. Now, who knows what the University of California system is doing, but we've seen some news articles about their professors complaining that in the test blind world, maybe we're not getting qualified students. I'm not saying anything about California, it's its own testing. situation, but I do think a lot of the other large state universities are going to add it in. The hard to get into places, if they haven't already, I think they're jumping back on board for test taking. It just gives them one more piece of data in which to make the decision. The maybe category, I think we're going to see a number of the small and medium size private liberal arts schools stay test optional. But I do think we're gonna see some of them go back to testing. But definitely the trend is towards testing. I think if you are the parent of a junior, you need to plan to take, you know, the SAT or ACT this year because more than likely next summer we're gonna hear a lot of those schools are back to requiring it.
Josh (19:33): Yeah, well thank you for that. And if you pay attention to that education, there's been this slow drip drop even since the school year started. I think when Notre Dame just last week, was it Thursday, maybe last Thursday, they announced that they're returning to testing, with the graduate class 2028. So not this year, so current juniors, as you were just mentioning, they're gonna be required to test if you would like to go to Notre Dame. And so I think we're gonna just kind of see a slow trickle, continuing. But as you pointed out, Megan, the California system is huge. I think if they make a decision, I think that's gonna unlock some floodgates here as well because of just the sheer volume of students that that would represent.
Megan Dorsey (20:09): I don't think that anyone followed them into the test blind world as much as maybe they thought people would. I think test optional works for a lot of schools. I just think it's really hard when you're looking at the numbers that our state universities deal with for them to remain test optional.
Josh (20:28): I'm gonna pick at it and then run away from because it opens up a whole other conversation. I think a lot of schools are returning to testing because of grade inflation, you know, and what does an A really mean? so many kids are showing up with perfect grades and 4.0's and or a hundred points, depending on whatever scale you use. And so I think that schools are beginning now to use testing as maybe at the differentiator. But that's a whole other conversation. I know I cracked open Pandora's box a little bit. Sorry Lisa. so maybe we
Lisa (20:54): You know I
Josh (20:55): can put a pen in that one and come back next time.
Megan Dorsey (20:57): And I'll add in, I know that the SAT and ACT are not a perfect measure of student success in college. We know that the predictive validity of these exams is not ideal. But I also know that a kid who's making an 800 on the SAT shows up with different academic skills than the kid who's making an 1100, than the kid who's making a 1400. Now, is there a huge difference between the 1400 and the 1600 kid? No. There's not really that big a difference between, the 1100 and the 1300 kid. But there are some steps at which you've got different academic levels of qualification. And I think compared with great inflation and other factors, we need to have some way to evaluate. It's not a perfect way, but it does offer some insight.
Lisa (21:46): And I think too, it's also to remind parents that you might not have that student that can make that 14 and 1500, right? if their best is 8, 900 And I think this topic, it's also helping parents, Take a step back that's okay. you need to meet your kid where they're at through all of this too. So mm hmm.
Josh (22:04): Yes. Yeah.
Megan Dorsey (22:06): But I think it also reminds them if you've got the 800 kid, there's a place for them. And there's a place for them to get a four-year degree. That place is not Yale. Their place is not Duke. And so we need to look at a better fit because that
Lisa (22:12): Absolutely, yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. It's all about fit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Megan Dorsey (22:23): kid would feel underwater and behind if they were to get into a place that just did not match their current ability. Their current ability, not their future potential, their current ability.
Lisa (22:34): Right. Right. And y'all, we did not pay Megan to say that. We like that she also said fit because welcome. this is a family. We all love the fit. That is also something
Josh (22:44): That's right.
Lisa (22:45): that we take from episode to episode. Mm-hmm.
Josh (22:47): Exactly, let's switch gears a little bit. And you got two really important questions to ask you in terms of thinking about which tests and when for students. So, first, Megan, because I know you have thoughts about this, having spoken with you before and listened to your podcast. so you've worked with both ACT and SAT for 30 years, Do you personally prefer the SAT or the ACT? And Does your preference actually matter for a student or is it all about the individual kid?
Megan Dorsey (23:15): Okay, if you'd have asked me this question five years ago, we would have gotten a very different answer. Five years ago, I was convincing people in Texas where most people take the SAT, I was convincing them to take the ACT. However, in the current situation with our digital SAT and the ACT as they changed it up last year, I am a hundred percent In favor of the SAT. In fact, I would try and talk you out of the ACT with very rare exception. I have one student right now I think might be a good fit for the ACT because he's so strong in reading and he's so struggling in math, and time is not an issue for him. But let me go through the why I don't like the ACT. It's more about why I don't like it. Than that I'm just in love with the SAT. I think the SAT is okay. currently the ACT has both a paper and pencil and a digital version. I thought I was gonna love the paper and pencil. I don't. you don't get the built-in Desmos digital calculator. If you're working paper and pencil, you gotta bring your own. And that Desmos calculator is a game changer. The ACT has not done a very good job converting their. paper and pencil test to a digital format. It's like the paper and pencil booklet, but on your screen. As opposed to the SAT where the questions are short paragraphs. You can see the the reading and the question right there on your screen. The ACD, you're scrolling through this hundred line passage to go answer a set of nine questions. You're not seeing it all on the screen at once. Poor formatting. And then my other beef. two two other big beefs with the ACT. One I thought was really gonna help students. Science is now optional. Hey, this is awesome. All my kids who struggled with science now don't have to take it. The problem is we don't know whether it's gonna help you or not. So now I'm having to spend all this prep time helping students with science only to decide a week or two before the exam, yeah, look forget all that. It's just not helping you. I had a client in the spring. He had taken the ACT and SAT both. He had done better on the ACT. In fact, science was his strongest section. So I was certain this kid was gonna be taking science. Study all the way leading up to the June test. He improved in English, he improved in math, he improved in reading. His science was no longer helping him. man, we wasted all that time and effort prepping for science. And it the whole question of it. just throws in more uncertainty into a stressful and uncertain process. So don't like that. And then the ACT's been giving essentially the same exam for decades. I can list off the SAT changed in 2005. We changed in 2016. we had all those major changes with the SAT. The ACT's just been kind of chugging along and they'll tweak at things a little bit here and there. We start asking this type of question in math. We Don't ask this much anymore. But all of a sudden, last fall, they decided they need to introduce some experimental questions. Questions that are not graded, but they don't tell you what they are. So you have to put in all this effort to work them. It's not new. The SAT's been doing it for years. And on the current test, two questions per module, both reading and math on the SAT, are experimental. Good news if you're stressing out, you always say to yourself, Hey, that question was weird. I'd never seen it. I wonder if it's that experimental one that doesn't count. So another reduce your stress thought. But the ACT has four reading passages. A bunch of kids struggle to finish. One of those doesn't count. If I used to tell kids you can do three passages and do them well, and then just guess on the last one, you'll improve your score. I can't do that anymore because if what if one of the three they do is the one that doesn't count? Now you haven't done enough problems to get what you want. And so now I'm having to say things like, well, do seven of the nine questions per passage, but now we're having to read this passage and not finish. I just think that it is an unfair burden to put 25% of a section as ungraded for your own data usage. so I just don't I have a real hard time supporting that. And I don't think that the ACT will turn out to be the better test for most students. It's gonna be a rare exception where it is. So that's my unbiased opinion.
Josh (27:47): Well we appreciate that.
Lisa (27:48): Also the hot take a little early. I love that.
Josh (27:50): I was like, Megan's I think we have your hot take, but we'll see if you have anything else later. so kinda Yeah, yeah.
Lisa (27:53): huh.
Megan Dorsey (27:52): I probably have more. Now, the SAT, I'll just give a quick view of the SAT so people who don't know. So the ACT is four sections if you choose to do science. English, which is multiple choice grammar, math, reading, which is those long reading passages I was saying, and science. The SAT is just two things again. What they call reading, which is a mixture of reading paragraphs and grammar and vocabulary, all spun into one, and then math. As I was saying, the SAT questions for reading are much shorter. Everything's on one screen. Math, you've got the built-in Desmos calculator, which is just huge for so many students. I joke that I had a TI Inspire calculator, great powerful calculator sitting on my desk for almost 10 years, intending to learn it. But because I'm not in, algebra class every day, I never did. Desmos, you can pick up and in five minutes you're typing things in just the way they appear. I've got the solution. So it's that much of a game changer. The test
Lisa (28:51): Well.
Megan Dorsey (28:51): is much shorter, too. For all of our kids who are worried about endurance and focus over time, the SAT for a standard timed kid is just over two hours. The ACT is gonna claim they're shorter. All their press releases say, no, we updated it at shorter. Like by ten minutes, it's not considerably shorter. So I'm I'm voting SAT now, but that doesn't mean I won't change in a few years when they change the tests.
Lisa (29:18): I have noticed students that have been taking it recently, they've come back and the students that liked the ACT first now really like the SAT. And I'm even seeing, that switch in real time with students that are going more towards SAT now.
Megan Dorsey (29:31): I also think there's things that are more coachable. I'm always in favor of how can I coach you to more points? What makes my job easier?
Josh (29:39): Yeah. Well that Megan, that response you may have just answered the sort of next question I was gonna get to. So in terms of as you're working with students to kind of identify which tests might be the better fit. So how does given obviously your your stance on the ACT and sort of where it is right now, how do those conversations go? how do you engage with the student to kind of, deliberate or figure out what test might be the better fit for them?
Megan Dorsey (30:01): The best way is to compare your timed practice test results. Here's my other hot take. For all that is good in the world, stop sending your kid to go take a baseline exam. Never, ever, never pay money to go take an SAT or ACT that you haven't prepared for. Because both companies use a metric of quote, too much improvement. To try to catch cheaters. So you're, I showed
Lisa (30:29): Who?
Megan Dorsey (30:29): up because mom told me I had to, but mom also told me it didn't really matter. It's just my baseline, versus I studied and I'm really working at it. You don't want to end up in that bind of College Boards questioning your scores because now you're never getting that score out of them. And over the years, I've seen some kids with both SAT and ACT end up in that situation. Take a practice test at your kitchen table. Use your PSAT score, your PACT score from last year at school. If you don't have the other tests, a lot of kids in my area take the PSAT, but not the ACT. Well, go get the digital or the paper version. Take it timed at your kitchen table one Saturday. Grading instructions and scoring instructions are available online for the paper version. Compare your results. Which one did you score better on? Which one did you like better? And that really will inform your decision. Colleges take either. They have no preference. Doesn't matter to them.
Lisa (31:27): So they're still taking a baseline, just not at a real testing site on a real test day. Yeah. Makes sense. Mm-hmm.
Megan Dorsey (31:31): Right. Right. Yeah, now don't take the the real test and call it a baseline. Use those
Josh (31:37): Yeah. Well
Megan Dorsey (31:39): practice materials.
Josh (31:41): Well, speaking of real tests, we now know we're not gonna use a real test as a baseline, we're gonna do a practice test. so when should students take real ACTs or SATs? What's the ideal timing for a student in your opinion?
Megan Dorsey (31:54): Junior year. Anytime, junior year. Some students who are just starting algebra two or geometry, you want to have geometry and algebra two, at least algebra two started, to take these exams. So if algebra two is your math right now in 11th grade, you're gonna take it in the spring. But other than that, there's very little kids are going to learn in school that's directly going to impact their ability to take the SAT. So you want to look at when do I have the most time and when do I have the most motivation. Now, some kids have the most time in the fall. I teach all of the baseball team in the fall because in the spring they belong to coach. If you've got kids with a really heavy AP schedule or a performance or competition scheduled that's really heavy in the spring, they probably want to prepare in the fall. Vice versa, right now, if you're in marching band or volleyball or football, you might not have the ability to add in test prep on top of everything else you're doing right now. You might want
Lisa (32:57): Mm. Fair.
Megan Dorsey (32:59): to prepare in the spring. But give yourself some time. The second factor is motivation. Some kids come into junior year ready to go. they're begging their parents, find me someone who can help me with my test prep. Other kids are like, that's way long off. But somehow spring semester at every high school, it seems, juniors wake up and realize college is right around the corner. So if they haven't caught that sort of college fever yet, spring semester usually finds most of the junior class talking to their peers, like, did you sign up to take it? I'm taking the SAT in March. And that Can help with the motivation component.
Josh (33:37): Awesome. Thank you for that. That's that's a that's a that's a good way to frame it in terms of basing around students' in level of involvement as well. So good, good. a couple other questions. re let's talk about retakes. So you you we we did talk about not taking, not using a real test as a baseline score and you know waiting until junior year and and you know doing your prep and stuff like that. Can students just keep taking the ACT or ST until they get the score they want, Megan? Is there a point of diminishing returns?
Megan Dorsey (34:04): You can. you have to pay for it and sacrifice a weekend. Here's here's what I tell people. The national average is somewhere between two and three tests, which we know there are gonna be a couple kids who take it one time and they're thrilled, or they're just limited and unable to take again. But we've got a couple others who are probably taking it three, four times, plan on taking it twice, maybe a third time. If you're still not satisfied with your results, that's when you have to have a serious look and say, if I'm gonna take it a fourth time, or if I'm gonna switch and go take the other exam, what am I gonna do differently? How am I gonna make this next time different? Sometimes, even with kids who really study, they're doing great on their practice tests. That first time, they just need to shake out the nerves. I didn't realize it would feel like the time goes that fast or whatever mistakes they make. So it's nice to be able to go back in soon after, a month or two after, while everything that you've reviewed is still fresh in your head. And somehow the nerves are settled a little bit more. But beyond that third time, I would start questioning, what's your purpose? What are you doing differently? Sometimes it's worth it, but sometimes we're just beating around the bush, we're getting the same score, plus or minus 10 or 20 points. Now, if your college says we're gonna move you up to the next scholarship level, if you get 20 points more, hey, that might be worth it. But if you're still saying, well, I had an 1180 and my goal is a 1400 I don't know that I would think that that's gonna happen on just one more testing.
Lisa (35:36): it's really popular that retaking here in Florida for bright futures because they
Megan Dorsey (35:40): Yes.
Lisa (35:40): actually have until June after they graduate so they can take it to the June test. So I think sometimes students were like, Listen, just take a break and then if you really need to hit that for the two categories of bright futures, maybe pick it back up in January. Not that you want to senior year, but you could do that. So I could see especially for scholarships or bright futures. Absolutely.
Megan Dorsey (35:59): And sometimes my spring semester senior year clients are my best students because they know exactly what that's worth. Like, how much could you study
Lisa (36:07): Right. That makes sense.
Megan Dorsey (36:08): if you were going to be paid $50,000? And all of a sudden, like the dollar signs start adding up in their mind. And they're not as stressed about getting into college. So they have a that's where the clear motivation comes in. I can see dollar signs, I've got the time to do it, spring semester of senior year. Not ideal for admissions, but if you're retaking it for money, that works.
Josh (36:33): Awesome. let's get into some a little bit more of the nuts and bolts of test prep. So Megan, in your opinion, what kinds of test prep actually make a difference? And how does a family, choose the right kind, identify that right kind and then make that choice?
Megan Dorsey (36:45): I'm gonna make a big distinction between test prep and skill building. Test prep is what I do in the six, eight, ten weeks before an exam to help a student be what we might think competition ready. And if we thought about this, let's say they're going to a music competition. I'm helping them with all the aspects of the final performance. I'm not teaching them to play the instrument. So test prep is the fine-tuning for that event. I don't teach kids algebra, geometry, how to think critically, how to read vocabulary. Sure, I can review those things, but knowledge and skill acquisition, that's what we should be doing all the time. So if you're thinking, I want my kid to get great test scores, hey, ninth, tenth grade, let's work on developing skills. Like actually learn the stuff you're taught in class instead of learn it for the test and forget it. Then junior year, you say, I'm gonna pick a test date. Like right now, I'm working with students preparing for October tests, PSAT, SAT. We're gonna focus on the strategies specific to that test. And so it's not subject matter review primarily, it's What are the strategies for answering these particular types of questions under the timed conditions you're given? So I think that's the big difference. What do you want to look for? Some kids can do it on their own. Some kids are pretty good. They could take a book, they can take a practice test and then analyze this is why I missed it. This is what I could do to improve. That's like saying some people are good at going to the gym and directing their own workouts. I have to hire a trainer for that because it also provides me a motivation and accountability. I'm not going to be able to do that on my own. But some kids can do direct their own test prep. and then I would really say do what you can afford. there are some free programs out there. if you have the ability to pay for a class or hire somebody for tutoring, you might be able to cut the process in time. And be more efficient with it. you also want to look for people who specialize in that. I only do SAT and ACT these days. You go down to the local Learning Center, well, they're going to do everything from teaching your third grader multiplication facts to, they've heard that the SAT is lucrative. They're going to tutor you for that too. But they're not really specialists in it. So find a program that specializes in test prep for your test. and that's the best way to do it.
Josh (39:17): Thank you for that. one final question in this section here. how much can a student realistically expect to improve their score with good test prep? I know that's a question that we get a lot. You know, how much, yeah.
Lisa (39:25): Ooh, it's a good one. Mm-hmm.
Megan Dorsey (39:27): Okay, I'm gonna give an average. I tell people, if you're coming like to my Sunday afternoon SAT class, I think it's reasonable to expect a hundred points improvement in reading and a hundred points in math. So that's 200 points on the SAT. Now that's not going to take you from in the middle of the pack a thousand to the top 10%. But it is significantly going to move your percentile, sort of like your class rank of test taking, if you can add those points. I've seen people do considerably more. I have a student who just took the SAT last weekend, senior, unfortunately, so a little bit stressed, took the test last spring, had an 850, left his practice tests around an 1180. So I'm really hoping he gets close to that from Saturday's test. So I, man, he's been
Lisa (40:18): That's amazing. Yeah.
Josh (40:19): That's a that's a pretty strong growth.
Megan Dorsey (40:22): working it. We've been working it over the summer, but some of it depends on why we're you missing points. What can we do to change? And how much effort do you put in? But like I said, I could practice singing for 10 hours a day for the next year and I'm still not going to be winning the singing competition. The talent show would not even give me a blue ribbon. But I could get better. I gotta find the right talent show.
Josh (40:45): Okay, we're gonna get you on those talent shows, Megan. It's gonna happen. We're gonna we're gonna make it happen.
Megan Dorsey (40:50): Gotta find my parents as the judge.
Josh (40:53): That's right, exactly. So well thank you for that. Well Megan, as we bring a close to the conversation, if you could say one thing to the student who's absolutely dreading test day, what would that be?
Megan Dorsey (41:04): It's probably not that you aren't good at testing. You just haven't practiced before. And so stop telling yourself you're not good at it. You just haven't practiced yet. You haven't hit enough on the practice level. and we should stop telling our kids stuff like it's okay to just not be good at math. Nobody would walk around and say, I'm unable to read and be okay with that. Don't say like I can't do math. No, math may not be your favorite. But watch the way you talk to yourself because your brain is listening. And you don't want to, you know, I don't think we can power of positive thinking our way to a great score, but we can through our own thinking hamper our ability to answer questions right on test day.
Lisa (41:47): that is two stickers, by the way. We I mean Megan, Megan, you are just
Josh (41:49): I know, yeah, that's the Megan, you're you just pr you print them out here, man.
Lisa (41:54): printing them off. I love it.
Josh (41:57): Yes, yes. Well, Megan, this conversation has been so helpful. but before we let you go, we've got one more thing that we do with all of our guests. and it's become a little bit of a drop-in staple. Lisa and I've been doing it and it's called drop the mic, right? first segment we're gonna do is hot take or hard truth. You're welcome to share one of those if you haven't, and then we'll move on to drop the mic, and then we'll give you the floor to leave the audience with something. Alright, so this hot take or hard truth. Lisa, why don't you kick us off?
Lisa (42:22): Megan, I'll let you think about yours. Okay, I'll go first. All right, here's mine, y'all. A test score is not a measure of how smart your kid is. So, parents, I need you to hear that again. A test score is not the measure of how smart your kid is. The SAT, the ACT, those are specific tests with specific rules. There's pacing, there are question types. There's a strategy that Megan was talking about. There's knowing when to move on, knowing, how to use your calculator, knowing how to manage the clock when your brain starts to tell you, my gosh, you're panicking. Those are skills and skills can be learned. I have watched kiddos improve their scores because they learned the test better, not because they suddenly became smarter between October and December. So please stop looking at that number like it tells you how intelligent your kid is. It doesn't. It tells you how they performed on that test on that one day. And with the right preparation, they can absolutely get better at it.
Josh (43:25): Nice, I like that, Lisa. So so mine's gonna be just I'm gonna talk to them on a more practical level. So, parents, before you spend a bunch of money on test prep, take a have your students take a full-length official practice test under real testing conditions. And Megan sort of gave some examples how you could do that earlier in the episode. Not half of one on the couch, not a section here, and another section three days later, but have the students sit down. Set the timer, put the phone away, use the calculator they're actually going to use on the test. Take the have them take the whole thing. Because that one practice test gives students a tremendous amount of information. Where are they starting? Is timing the problem? Is there one section dragging the score down? Does the student know the material before they start rushing at the end? Does anxiety show up once the clock starts? So families can spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars trying to answer questions that a free official practice test can help identify in one day. So get the baseline first and a practice baseline, not an official test, then
Lisa (44:27): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. practice baseline, most important take from this episode. All right, Megan, are you ready? it's time for you to bring us home. So what is your hot take from doing this 30 years work?
Megan Dorsey (44:40): Test prep is definitely something that is coachable. You can learn to take these tests. You can learn the types of questions they're always asking, the ways they're trying to make students miss questions. Because what people need to understand is the SAT and ACT don't want you to have a perfect score. I joke with my clients. How would Harvard know who to let in if everybody was scoring between 1400 and 1600? The test is written with hard questions that they expect fewer than 5% of test takers will be able to get right. So it's not just you. You can practice, but more doesn't always mean better. So just because you went running every day doesn't mean that by the end of high school, you're going to be able to break the four-minute mile. Just because you start practicing earlier and do more does not equal. scoring better. So for practice, I think that quality beats quantity. And there's only a limited amount of official test material out there from either College Board or ACT. Don't squander good material on bad practice.
Josh (45:51): Wow. Again, another don't squander good material, bad practice. Another sticker.
Lisa (45:52): Woo! Man! Megan! That is three!
Josh (45:56): That's that's pretty good. Megan, I think, I think you're gonna be the official sticker a maker for decision drop because yeah, those
Lisa (46:01): You are pretty good.
Josh (46:05): are good. Those are really good.
Megan Dorsey (46:06): You do this a while, you get into it.
Lisa (46:07): I mean, Woo! Okay, Megan, that was amazing. all right, Josh. So it is drop the mic time. So Josh, what do you got?
Josh (46:15): Okay, so here's my final thought. and this one is really for students. that test that we've been talking about, those tests, they're not measuring who you are. They are measuring how well you performed on a very specific test with specific rules on a particular morning, That's it. So treat it like the skill that it is. Learn the format, learn the pacing, practice the strategies, walk in as prepared as you can be. And then let the score be what it is. Because whether that number is exactly what you hope for or not, it doesn't suddenly tell us how smart you are, how hard you work, what kind of student you are, or what you're capable of doing in college. It is one piece of a much bigger picture. So yes, prepare for it. Yes, take it seriously, but do not give that number more power than it deserves.
Lisa (47:02): Oof. Yes, y'all. all of this. I just, this has been one of my favorite episodes so far. Cause I think it's whether you feel like you have test anxiety or you have test anxiety, I think all of us have anxiety in some parts of our life. And I just, this has just been such a great just gut check. I know for me and hopefully for our families too. Whew! All right, y'all. here is what I want every family to carry out of this episode. Do not let testing take over your kiddo's life. Josh talked to students, I'm circling back to parents. So make a plan. Figure out which test makes the most sense. Like Megan said, pick your dates. and give your kiddo time enough time to prepare. Get the help that they need. And yes, we know not everyone can afford test prep. like Megan said, there are plenty of options out there that are free. So find what works for your kiddo. And then follow that plan. I do not want SATs and ACT conversations happening at the kitchen table every single night for six months. That is not good for anybody. Parents, your kiddo already knows when the test is. They already know you would love for them to get that score up. And they do not need you asking them after every practice session. Well, how'd you do? Right? Do not make every Saturday morning feel like the test is the only thing that matters. Be the calm. I know we've talked about that in a couple of episodes, but legit, stay with us. Be the calm, especially in this part of the process. Give them resources, give them time to take it, give them the time back, give them the encouragement, and give them a little bit more room to do the work. Because testing is supposed to be one part of the college process, right? Think of it like a pie and it's cut into five equal pieces. This is one slice of the pie. It is not the whole pie, y'all. Your kiddo still has classes to take, activities to take care of, friends to see, and actual life to live. They are still kids. They need to have time to be them. So make the plan, do the work, take the test, and then keep moving.
Josh (49:13): I like that Lisa. Nice, nice. Megan, you wanna jump in here and drop a mic?
Megan Dorsey (49:18): I'll jump in, but I'm going to reiterate a little bit of what both of you have said. And for some people, this may sound weird because you know that my business is 100% test prep. Not everybody needs to take these tests. If the SAT and ACT are going to ruin your life, you've got a kid who's just on the edge, maybe struggling to make it through the regular school day. We've got test optional schools for a reason. Use those. So if you've got test anxiety that's manageable and you can make it work, do so. But if you use that practice test you took at home and you realize between my grades and my practice test scores, I'm already looking like a slam dunk candidate for my top schools, save your time. Kids have a lot of things they need to do, and test prep shouldn't be the number one on the list. We fit it in. If it's something we need, if it's helping us reach our goal, but we don't need to do it just as a rite of passage. So make sure that you're thinking big picture because preparing for the SAT, but dropping your grades in three of your classes hasn't given you an admissions win. So look, look at it as the big picture. And not everybody's gonna need test prep. It's not gonna be right for everyone. Not even taking those exams may be right for everyone. There may be some good reasons that we say, a lot of people are doing that. It's just not for me.
Lisa (50:45): Goes back to the fit. The fit every time.
Josh (50:45): Wow. this was probably like our best drop the mic section since that we had in a while. this is great. Thank you for that. Thank you.
Lisa (50:52): Yes. I mean, I don't know if we can go up from here. I think this is our base like is this our baseline or is good as we're gonna get? really good.
Josh (50:59): we've peaked now episode fourteen we've peaked, so it's pretty much all downhill from here. So okay.
Megan Dorsey (51:04): Always tell my clients, come up with your dream score before you get your results in and don't keep chasing any better. Maybe this is our dream score.
Josh (51:12): Hey hey, you know
Lisa (51:13): Yeah, it's true.
Josh (51:14): This is a high note to go out on. Okay. So well, Megan, again, thank you. thank
Lisa (51:15): Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Love it. Mm-hmm.
Josh (51:18): you so much, obviously, for your time. This has been a great conversation and we really hope that families and students who are listening to this learn a lot. so next week on drop in, we're gonna tackle another important topic that stresses families out almost as much as the admissions process and the decisions that come from that themselves. Money, financial aid.
Lisa (51:36): Mm. Mm. yes. The FAFSA, the CSS profile, all the acronyms that suddenly show up right when everybody is tired of this process.
Josh (51:47): Yeah. And the questions families are sitting at home Googling at eleven o'clock at night, what's a FAFSA? what's a CSS profile? What do those letters stand for? Do we need both of them? When are we supposed to file all of this?
Lisa (51:57): Yes, so please do not wait until your keto gets accepted to start figuring all of this out. There are deadlines and some of them come up a whole lot earlier than families realize.
Josh (52:07): Yeah, and so we're gonna break down what each form actually does, who needs to complete what, and when you need to get it done.
Lisa (52:14): And we're going to be answering the big questions families have they're sometimes afraid to ask. if we apply for financial aid, can it hurt our kiddos' chances of getting in? Because the answer is actually not exactly the same at every school. I know shocker, it depends. See how that it depends happens in every piece of this fun roller coaster that we're on in college admissions. So you need to understand what you are looking at.
Josh (52:39): Yeah. So if cost matters at all in your college decision.
Lisa (52:43): Mm-hmm. Which for pretty much everyone it does, you need to absolutely tune in and you do not want to miss this. Okay. So remember, we are decision drop, making the most of your college journey, and we want to make it collaborative and simple, and most importantly, yours. And if you want us to help you get a smart testing plan, The right timing, the strategy that fits your student instead of stressing them out, head over to decision drop.com and check us out. And one more big thank you to Megan. We could not have done this podcast without you. You are amazing. That is two GOATS in a row between Mary
Josh (53:22): That's right.
Lisa (53:23): O'Malley and Megan. Y'all, we are, we're killing it So thank you again for tuning in to us.
Josh (53:27): That's right. Thank you, Megan. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you to everyone else for dropping in and we'll see y'all next week.
Lisa (53:32): Bye.
